To not invite friend because of SEN child

[GameOverBoys]

I know I’m going to get roasted here so I will try to give all the information.
Myself and a few friends have been discussing getting a villa for a holiday next summer. There are 5 families all with children aged 6 to 13. We all went to uni together with another friend who has two boys. Her eldest (10 years old) is on the pathway and I feel fairly confident that he is neuro-diverse. Maybe autism or ADHD but has traits of both. So far, we haven’t invited her but now we are looking for villas we need to make a decision if we are going to or not. She is a lovely, sweet woman and we would have no question if it wasn’t for the impact on the group that her eldest has. He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.
He’s very bright, articulate and thoughtful boy and thrives on adult interaction. Away from other kids, I enjoy spending time with him a lot.
During play dates and get togethers we tend to take it in turns to supervise the kids and he is generally much better behaved when watched and any major danger can be stopped. It’s also easy to spot triggers like competitive games. He is also better when there are fewer kids. If we go to a villa (with a swimming pool) supervising him will be impossible and we want to have a break and just let the kids have a bit of freedom. The other children are all old enough and sensible enough to listen to instructions, such as you can’t go to the pool area.
His mother does her best but when she supervises him his behaviour is much worse for her. Her youngest is well behaved so I don’t feel it’s particularly bad parenting, just a stressed out single parent with few resources left to deal with a very hard to parent child. She also has a physical disability which can sometimes stop her being able to intervene. If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.
I don’t think she realises how bad it is because this has always been her situation, but it’s constant. The group get on so well when he’s not there. There is no need to get involved, other than the occasional requests for food etc and it’s really relaxing. When he is there it is drama the entire time. I think he just doesn’t have the social skills to mix in a big group and he get’s overstimulated. However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded.

YABU - You are being unreasonable to exclude someone because of SEN

YANBU - You are not being unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and only invite who you want to

It’s unclear. I think everyone feels guilty and loves our friend and would be devastated if she felt left out. But selfishly feel the holiday would be a totally different thing if they come.

I think whiif you dont invite him she will be hurt and angry and MIGHT end the friendship, but unlikely as she will still want your support.
People's faults are magnified 100x when yu are living with them. You will very likely all resent this child being there by the end of teh week , if it adbersely affects yours or yor children's enjoyment.Dont invite them.Dont make her problems yours!
Not your circus.Not your monkeys!

There is no evidence this boy is ND. I think the OP did a disservice writing SEN in the title. From what I read, it's his mother's parenting perhaps with ADHD.

Even if he had ASD, they can still be taught to watch out for other obstacles, er, people.

It’s not selfish to want to prioritize their own families and themselves at times. They matter too, their children matter too. So do you and yours.

By the sounds of it you all do regularly include her, but that doesn’t mean that everything has to revolve around her. It’s perfectly reasonable to want to relax on holiday and not be constantly on guard to the degree they would have to be if her child was there.

OP you sound worse and worse with every post.
So he threatens and hits other children?
It's obvious that, as a group, you are not 'exclusive' of this woman and her son. But consider whether a group holiday situation with this child is a good idea.
So what if someone gets injured on of the 'other' parents watch. Will that parent of the child forgive them?

Just because that is your reality, doesn't mean it should be everyone else's.

And tbh I don’t think it is unclear. If they wanted her there I think they’d be quick to vocalize that. Based on what you’ve said it seems obvious they don’t want her there, but don’t want to say it outright.

I’m not a single parent but I’m the parent of two autistic boys, 10 & 5.

I would love a holiday with friends but wouldn’t even consider taking my boys and they don’t have the negative behaviours described.

Have you actually spoken to her? If she were me and you came to me suggesting that I’d laugh, thank you for thinking of including me but give it a hard pass.

Entirely correct.

That said, equally correct is the genuinely most sad reality here is that a complete discussion in a large group of "friends" has occurred along with this thread, all while this parent is in the dark.
In this poor woman's shoes and with "friends" like this I think OP and her friends' are doing her a favour.

Majority of SEN parents as so eloquently described upthread are used to their own children because there's no choice and also are used to exclusion, the judgement and woeful lack of understanding shown consistently on threads such as these. The lack of humanity from so many, specifically "friends" though is what stings hardest.

Just imagine never being able to contemplate a coffee break never mind a holiday away in a vila..... oh wait

I don’t get this perspective at all. So, because you can’t have a coffee break no one else is allowed to ever go on a relaxing holiday with their families? They should be punished so as to make life “fairer” in some way? The OP has already said they help their friend out by regular babysitting and having him overnight so she can have a break but that’s clearly not good enough right? They should all act as his full time nanny on holiday as well and let their kids get hurt or injured because you don’t get a coffee break. Don’t be so ridiculous.

Absolutely never said anybody ought to be responsible for making life "fairer" or indeed the anybody should be expected to babysit....

This was in response to a post where the general desire was a right to a holiday and leave the other children roaming about the pool unsupervised which seems wholly unrealistic. This in itself is a ridiculous expectation to me.

Further ridiculous was that a group of friends have gone as fa as sourcing a holiday villa they like and already decided who it will/won't suit, without considering one of their friends. Ridiculously sad.

I agree all the children matter. I was a ND kid and far from shoving people out the way I was anxious about getting in the way or tripping up due to coordination issues etc. being around a child like the OP describes -would have really set me on edge and feeling rushed the whole time in case I moved too slow for his liking. But because I wasn’t vocal about my needs and masked a lot, like many girls, I’d just have been sitting there silently stressed.

Hopefully none of the kids there have those issues and aren’t going to be feeling on edge.

I really hope it all works out for everyone!

I agree it's sad. I agree it's unfair. I just also think there are no winners here full stop, they don't take her, they feel shit but the holiday is better, they do take her, the holiday is shit but they feel better. Life is genuinely unfair. It fucking sucks. I get that.

Absolutely never said anybody ought to be responsible for making life "fairer" or indeed the anybody should be expected to babysit....

Actually, lots of people said they should draw up a babysitting rota whereby all the adults took turns each day to supervise him. I think that is a ridiculous idea. I do fully agree however that they should have discussed this with her first. Everyone is assuming she would be happy with this plan but several parents in this thread have rightly stated they’d be deeply uncomfortable with handing over responsibility of their child to someone else whilst on holiday, especially if they exhibited challenging behaviour. Many also said they’d have no interest going anyway in which case it’s a moot point.

But generally parents of SEN children will also face those sorts of issues at the same rate as everyone else.

So yes, generally speaking SEN parents are having a tougher time than NT parents, all those other examples effect all types of parents.

I feel like this needs to be said again: if mum is getting no break then that is DAD’S fault.

It’s outrageous that one of this friendship group getting called all sorts of names has this kid overnight when his own father doesn’t.

Where is the outrage for the male parent, rather than the women who apparently have to parent a random child or else they’re selfish bitches?

Exactly no winners whosoever, I suspect the fact that this conversation has happened whilst this mother remains oblivious. In her shoes his is what I suspect she will find most hurtful, she is already well used to the rest I am sure.

YANBU, and your first priority needs to be the safety of your own DC. But, if I were your friend I’d be devastated, and it would be really hard to stop her finding out. Why do you need to go away as a big group? Can’t you just go away with one other friend or your own immediate family?

@FelisCatus0 if you are frightened to talk to them they you aren’t friends. That isn’t how friendship works.

But they haven't 'sourced a villa'. They've only looked at options. So a group holiday isn't a done deal.
Having already established that suitable villas exist and are financially viable, the next step is setting expectations.
Holidays are expensive - if people don't want to spend all that money then deal with friend's son they are well within their rights. I don't think the kids are going to have ZERO supervision. But a child that needs to be watched extra closely because he has no impulse control is very different from kids that you can keep half an eye on, especially if they will be with older children.

I suspect this will all fall apart, and people will all go on their individual holidays, or maybe in smaller groups. Which is the best all-round solution IMO.

I voted YABU but I don’t think you are unreasonable really. I just think the impact on her of not being invited will be huge and potentially devastating when I’m sure she would use all the friends she’s got. But I get it that you want a break too.

OP literally said this:

I’m seeing one of the other couples tomorrow and I’m going to suggest cabins or something similar where we can all have our own space. If the couple who are most against don’t want to come then I think that’s preferable to the alternative.

But don’t let that stop you from criticising her..

Shoving is only intentionally hurting someone if the person understands cause and effect. If they don’t understand that shoving someone = the person getting hurt then they aren’t intentionally causing harm.

A child who is able to threaten to hurt other children who don’t do as he likes does understand cause and effect though. So in this case it’s irrelevant. In fact, in any case it’s irrelevant, because if a child doesn’t understand that pushing others hurts them then they must always be extremely closely supervised to stop others being hurt.

I would honestly rather forget the whole thing rather than lose a friend or at the very least hurt her feelings terribly. Maybe just go on holiday with one of the other families rather than all of them.