To not invite friend because of SEN child

[GameOverBoys]

I know I’m going to get roasted here so I will try to give all the information.
Myself and a few friends have been discussing getting a villa for a holiday next summer. There are 5 families all with children aged 6 to 13. We all went to uni together with another friend who has two boys. Her eldest (10 years old) is on the pathway and I feel fairly confident that he is neuro-diverse. Maybe autism or ADHD but has traits of both. So far, we haven’t invited her but now we are looking for villas we need to make a decision if we are going to or not. She is a lovely, sweet woman and we would have no question if it wasn’t for the impact on the group that her eldest has. He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.
He’s very bright, articulate and thoughtful boy and thrives on adult interaction. Away from other kids, I enjoy spending time with him a lot.
During play dates and get togethers we tend to take it in turns to supervise the kids and he is generally much better behaved when watched and any major danger can be stopped. It’s also easy to spot triggers like competitive games. He is also better when there are fewer kids. If we go to a villa (with a swimming pool) supervising him will be impossible and we want to have a break and just let the kids have a bit of freedom. The other children are all old enough and sensible enough to listen to instructions, such as you can’t go to the pool area.
His mother does her best but when she supervises him his behaviour is much worse for her. Her youngest is well behaved so I don’t feel it’s particularly bad parenting, just a stressed out single parent with few resources left to deal with a very hard to parent child. She also has a physical disability which can sometimes stop her being able to intervene. If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.
I don’t think she realises how bad it is because this has always been her situation, but it’s constant. The group get on so well when he’s not there. There is no need to get involved, other than the occasional requests for food etc and it’s really relaxing. When he is there it is drama the entire time. I think he just doesn’t have the social skills to mix in a big group and he get’s overstimulated. However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded.

YABU - You are being unreasonable to exclude someone because of SEN

YANBU - You are not being unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and only invite who you want to

I think the issue of SEN blurs people's perception of what's reasonable, because, it is hard to know what behaviour is a choice that a child has control over and what is symptomatic of their neuro divergence. It can be hard to distinguish between 'deliberately naughty behaviour' and 'demonstrating a lack of understanding of physical and social boundaries when playing with others'.

It's irrelevant. My disabilities are physical, not behavioural, and there is no question that they aren't my fault or within my control. It's still not in any way reasonable of me to expect my able-bodied friends to spend their money and annual leave on a holiday that fits within the very narrow boundaries of my physical abilities.

This

Yes absolutely, if my child is at risk of getting physically hurt whilst on holiday (a place where I have no idea what the medical care is like, cannot speak the language fluently and would mean using costly health insurance) then of course their physical safety is something I would have to consider. The consequences are the same, regardless of the reason behind it. Surely, safety should be considered at all times, not just on holiday. Intention doesnt mitigate harm. If you get punched in the face for example, the physical effects on you are going to be the same, regardless if the person was having a mental health crisis at the time.

Support which friend? Support the one with the son who pushed the little girl on a climbing frame or support the friend with the daughter who was pushed that doesn’t feel safe coming on the holiday if that kid is there?

Oh forgot to add, my god son would not be brought in a holiday like this as it would stress him out too much and his mother knows this so wouldn't put up him in this situation, but we would invite them and be happy to try our best to accommodate both if she wanted to try it again.

Not the friends whose daughter was assaulted though. She’s not the child and they’re not the friends worthy of consideration it seems.

I hope OP get the holiday she and her family actually want and will enjoy.

Assaulted? Really? If this child is anything like my DD, he would have been completely focused on getting to the top of the climbing frame and barely even registered the little
girl.

Just got back and there are so many replies! Thank you for everyone’s thoughts they are genuinely all useful and mainly reflect my internal conflict. I haven’t read every reply yet but wanted to address some recurring points -
He isn’t malicious or mean he just does stuff in the moment. So, for example, if one of the kids has something he wants and he can’t wait he will threaten them or sometimes hits out. He gets upset if he isn’t first to play with something or doesn’t win or he needs to wait for stuff. But he can be very loving and kind. He will give his sweets away or help one of the others do something. Also he is hilarious and has a lot of fun energy.
I can see reading back that my comments about parenting strategies sounded very clichéd and patronising. I was trying to express that she doesn’t seem overly aware and doesn’t seem to be proactive in how she manages him, so she wouldn’t really watch him properly if we didn’t. I 100% don’t think I could do what she does as well as she does it. I have much less patience than her and need my sleep! (He gets up very early).
The group of children do all get on completely fine. There is the very occasional issue between siblings but if we take them out for the whole day it’s rare they need any intervention.
I think the people saying it’s a friendship ender and that they will feel excluded from lots of things already are completely right.
I’m seeing one of the other couples tomorrow and I’m going to suggest cabins or something similar where we can all have our own space. If the couple who are most against don’t want to come then I think that’s preferable to the alternative.

And that makes it ok, does it? The entitlement of some parents on here is disgusting. The OP said he shoved her out of the way because she was taking so long. The amount of parents with children with behavioural issues who wave it away seems to me proportionate to the bad behaviour and inability of the parent to take some responsibility! And they wonder why people exclude them! Have a look at your own bloody attitude!

I think it's a mistake, OP. By your own admission, she doesn't even seem to make an effort to be on the ball to watch him. I bet she has never even thanks to any of you for watching him when won't. I would much rather fall out with her than with the parents of that little girl who are the innocents in all this, and through no fault of their own, may drop out of the group altogether if you still insist on inviting her.

To be fair, I don't think you can win in this situation.

It can end up being a friendship ender for the other couple too, seeing as their daughter being physically hurt is being played down.

We aren’t valuing sitting back with a Prosecco over supporting a friend. We gladly give her a break when we can. I have babysat a few times and one of the other couples has had him overnight loads.

It can end up being a friendship ender for the other couple too, seeing as their daughter being physically hurt is being played down.

Agreed I feel angry for that little girl and even angrier at the predictably entitled heartless and selfish parents on here downplaying what happened to her. Not even caring about any of the other parents. Not caring about anyone else but themselves. Everyone else doing the lifting for this parent (who seems to have a nonchalant attitude to parenting so I don't believe it's SEN, and he's not even diagnosed with anything per OP). It is so unfair and I bet the family of the girl are feeling pretty well hard done by if she is invited. And if she is invited, I bet she will accept because she sounds the same entitled person. She won't say no. Why would she? Everyone else parents for her.

I think she’s just exhausted and is in survival mode. I think she aware that he will listen much better to others so gladly steps away.

Whilst I totally understand how you must feel. This made me sad. Please invite her. She will surely be devastated if you don’t 😞

I don’t think the other couple would end the friendships. They understand it’s a horrible situation.

Devastated at losing free babysitting maybe.

I think the other couple whose girl was hurt would be more devastated, and would have the right to feel hard done by.

Turning it away from ND vs NT;
you are the only one out of a friends group with kids. They want a relaxing group holiday, sunbathing, drinking, going out.
would you expect the whole group to change this to a toddler friendly holiday with early activities, chicken nuggets, taking turns watching the toddler and getting up early with the toddler so you can relax too, or to club in and pay for a nanny???

By legal terms, it is assault. He shoved a girl making her fall because she wouldn’t move. That is not the same things as you described with your child.

As a parent of a now adult child with ADHD don't invite him

Honestly it will ruin the whole holiday.
People without experience of ADHD have no idea how it will impact all the other people.

I feel so sorry for the Mother in this situation.

Why should they be the ones left out because their child was injured?

OP, have the parents of the girl who was hurt said they definitely won’t go if the other woman and her DC are invited?

How old was this child when he shoved the girl out of the way? He’s 10 now so presumably under 10 so it wouldn’t be assault as children of that age aren’t legally culpable due to immaturity of thought. And how old was the girl? Old enough to be at the top of a climbing frame without supervision? It’s not exactly unusual for one child under 10 to shove or knock another one out of the way. There’s lots of ways adults could have prevented it

Oh ffs. No one said it is legal assault, but he certainly shoved her and she fell. OP herself has said he pushes and hits and threatens. Stop minimising this.