Man 'sexually assaults' woman then throws her and a friend off bridge into ravine at German tourist spot

[IsThereAnEchoInHere]

https://amp.lbc.co.uk/news/women-thrown-off-bridge-germany-neuschwanstein-castle/

21 year old lost her life because of male
entitlement.
I’m sick of this.

When will this end?
Name the problem.

The test of how men view and treat women is, as a poster commented on upthread, how they treat them when they can get away with it.

You only have to look at how men treat women in a war situation, when they are most likely to go unpunished, to see the truth.

So two opinion pieces and two small sample studies from the Americas that have found only a weak association. No correlation and no causation. No comparison to historic rates of violence whatsoever.

Did you expect me to send you hundreds of links? To sift through everything out there to present to you, here on mumsnet on a Saturday morning? Would you have preferred I write a review article, just for you? Cop on now.

Also, I saw your comment about how you "travelled the world" and only ever asked random men for help in remote areas, how you run alone at night, how you manage to pick only amazing and godly men to be around you. It reads like a fantasy novel blurb, written by men's rights activists. If you did all those things, you're bloody lucky you survived. I work in a large poor country for a few months every year in very rural areas (field work), and the safety rules for females especially are extremely strict, because in these areas women and girls go missing all the time. Almost all the time we make sure that there are men and women working together, but I remember once I was working with three female students, we had no men with us, and I was absolutely terrified every time I heard a car coming down the road, because I knew that I could not defend myself or my students if any of the men got an idea to do anything to us. I will never forget that. I wouldn't let any of the girls go off a little way into the bushes to pee.

It's great that you have no fear and have lived a magical life, and somehow have this supernatural ability to know that the men around you are all good ones who won't hurt you, but it really reads very condescendingly when you say "you must have chosen to have bad men around you so it's your own fault".

Out of curiosity, how would you have avoided this man's seemingly random attack in Bavaria? Would you just have assumed he was safe like every other man you've laid eyes on? Maybe if you had been there he wouldn't have done it, because men don't do bad things when you're around?

that is reported crime

vast majority of sexual assault goes unreported,
not all domestic violence is reported and when it is it’s rarely the first incident

I have never said it’s the worse it’s ever been but I am not going along with this nonsense poor men get a terrible time NAMALT narrative the issues is far far too many men are and this is what needs to be addressed as this is the problem

and why aren’t all those nice men helping women it’s women that fight for changes

@HRTQueen to be fair L3 is quoting the CSEW which is based on surveys not police reports, however I don’t believe the stats she is quoting include sexual offences (@L3ThirtySeven perhaps you can clarify your source?) so not that helpful when discussing male violence against women. CSEW is carried out using face to face interviews and considered fairly unreliable in capturing the extent of sex crimes I believe as people are unlikely to want to share that information in that scenario.

I think you are replying to two different people but I am the one who travelled.

Your view is so skewed that you try to deny me my own life experience or insult me and deflect by claming I must be MRA since to you it isn't humanly possible for a woman to be independent or not be harmed. To you a woman walking out her front door is the sme as being led into a stadium of straving lions - that danger is everywhere and it is very unlikely she will get through the gauntlet of men on that walk home unscathed. That is a skewed perspective. It isn't supported at all by statistics nor the life experience of many. The culture of fear is somethign that women seem to desperately want and why you attack me. You want me to be scared for my life, you want women to live in fear - you want to catastrophize the actual issue into something the means women just spend their lives alone huddling in closed spaces in terror. The reality of the world is not that dystopian.

If you read my post you would see that I said that some violence is entirely unpredictable and that there is risk in life. I did not say I live a magical life, I actually live a very normal life - for decades - and in that normal life have encountered hundreds (maybe thousands?) of men and not been harmed. I don't assume every man or woman is safe or that harm is impossible or that I could never be harmed in any way at all or that I can prevent all harm. Reread my post. The reality is as a woman one can live a normal life without being in a state of fear. I do.

What can men do? Oh, poor men. It's not as if have political and social power they could use to fix those things.

Not forgetting of course that education, healthcare and mental health services also fail women (and often to a greater extent - physical amd mental health care for women is considerably worse than for men). And yet ...

The CSEW figures for violence do not include homicide, do not include sexual assault (add another 3%), do not include domestic abuse (add another 6%) and also don't include anyone older than 59.

And those the the percentages for 1 year, 'ever experienced' will be much, much higher.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingdecember2022

Don’t forget the legal system as well as literally setup to fuck women over financially because most of them can’t afford legal representation in divorce cases. It might be a little bit biased towards women in residency custody cases. You can have the kids but nobody is gonna give you the funds to raise them. Nor enforce child-support.

I live in Bavaria.
This case is absolutely shocking, especially as Bavaria has a pretty low crime rate in general (high investment in police and high visibility).

My personal experience (not sure if helpful!) is that street harassment is low here.
The comments above about enforcement of child support aren't relevant here as the German states will cover outstanding payments and recover the money from the non-payer directly, including a requirement to work and significant penalties. The amount due is based on the Duesseldorfer Tabelle, a sliding scale taking all children into account.

Is Bavaria perfect? Clearly not, as this happened here.

It's bad that the Daily Mail has published the victims' names, they would be suppressed here, the police are not even confirming the nationality of the victims as they don't see it as relevant to the public.

Two women a week are murdered by their current or ex- partner. It's hardly an aberration. Quite often they kill the children too. This story is on the news this morning. No details yet but I'm willing to bet it's a murder-suicide.

BBC News - Four people found dead in Hounslow flat
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-65937795

That wanker travelled all the way from the US to kill a young girl just starting out in life
Men become enraged that women aren't under their dominion, that they can live their lives for themselves rather than subordinate themselves to and forever be in the service of men.
Can't tolerate a woman being better than a man in any way shape or form so has to kill her.
This is what's behind so many men wanting to identify as women, they are seeing that women have more options to be successful and to have real power and they want to jump ship and try and get some of those benefits for themselves whilst retaining the essence of their masculinity of course, and taking any opportunity they can to denigrate and attack women.

Since covid I believe its now 3 a week roughly, I've heard podcasters/YouTubers now use that as a statistic but I've not googled for myself, quite honestly even thinking about it makes me sick.

Men fear we will laugh at them, women fear men will kill them, Margaret Atwood said I think? 😔

I think he deserves to die and of course if anyone hurt my children I would want to tear them limb from limb with my bare hands.
I still think the death penalty is counterproductive, it sends a message that if you have enough power you can take someone's life and that's what men do they take someone's life because they feel they have the power to.
In countries where they have the death penalty are things better, is there less violent crime?
The problem of what to do with people who won't obey the rules is thorny and intractable.

Chucking him in the ravine would be fair punishment and might actually deter some other men
Then again that sector of men who truly believe that women deserve to die if they reject men's advances would likely have overwhelming impulses to kill more women in punishment for the death of their comrade.
I also feel he ought to be chucked off the ravine but at the same time I know that violence only begets more violence.

I think for this kind of crime, the death penalty which is purely about vengeance. Nothing to do with rehabilitation is literally the only solution.

It does send a very strong message that this behaviour won’t be tolerated.

As far as I’m concerned, if you touch hair on a child’s head, hurt a vulnerable person, or murder Anyone you know longer have a place in society, and I will not lose any sleep over removing you from it permanently.

Oh god this is vile
Those poor girls 😢

Is that the openly recognised excuse now? At least it’s come out of the closet. Hitler must have had mental health issues, as must Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Cortes and Pizarro, …., And all the men who willingly, even joyfully followed them.

It’s an excuse. That’s all.

It might not be all men, but it’s a big enough proportion that we have to be weary of all men.

Wary*

Why the fuck is sexually assaults in inverted commas in that article?

People (vast majority are men) of sound mind do plan to commit murder what they don’t plan is getting caught

this is why the law treats people who do have mh diagnosis and this was the cause of them committing the offence (it’s not just about having a diagnosis) differently when sentencing (sometimes diagnosed later so may be moved form prison to a secure hospital)

Diminished responsibility is their defence ie. Hearing instructions to kill them

Yeh that’s a false claim by pp.

I’m not sure why it keeps being said on here when males commit violent crimes.

sadly some feel the need to defend men and excuse male violence or play it down

This is horrid and so is the case in Germany. This makes me even more confident of the boundaries I have with men. Eg. Not allowing men i’m dating them to know the exact town I live in (i just meet in the nearby city) vetting them as best as I can before things go further etc. Avoiding asking men for help if i’m lost etc…I’m made to feel by some as paranoid and some men try to override my boundaries, but I clearly I have good reason to be cautious.

haven’t read all this thread but agree with PP a lot of men actually hate women. Being married or having daughters etc is not proof you like or respect women.

I would love a revolt against these type of men that hate women it's disgraceful do they forget where they come from id love to castrate the lot of them.