to not want to socialise with people significantly wealthier than us

[AliceMay55]

DH reconnected with his old mates a few years ago and we started socialising with this group. it has now started to impact me. They are all quite wealthy (he went to a very posh school on scholarship). We are ok financially. We have good jobs, a large detached house in the suburbs, nice cars, a couple of nice holidays a year etc, These friends are in a different league all together (say a few million a year income types).
We have a busy life with 3 kids. we have limited help. So I’m constantly busy, knackered, my kids don’t do many activities (just 2 each) and I look tired. On the other hand, the women in this group are doing very well professionally, have nannies/mothers help/cleaners, beautiful hands, lovely hair, designer clothes/bags, always look perfect. All their kids go to private schools, have a lot more “stuff” than our kids. We all just stand out like that.
AIBU to not want to socialise with the group anymore, just because of the very obvious financial disparity? DH can socialise if he wants;

How on earth have you jumped to the conclusion in your first paragraph? I've read all the OP's posts and there is nothing to suggest that. MN is an unpleasant place at times.

The idea that everyone has to stay in their appointed class lane is a recipe for restrictive class stratification which limits all of us

& yet Mns is obsessed with class.

Yes, there's always outliers but generally Rupert who works in finance, lives in Chelsea and has a weekend place in the Cotswolds isn't spending his weekends socialising with Darren who lives in a council flat and fits carpets.

except on Mns 😆

Its quite striking how many people are quick to jump in with, ‘well that’s like…’ even when it clearly isn’t, which they could tell if they actually exercised a little comprehension skills and empathy when reading the OP.

I guess some are jealous of the OP & feel the need to put her down!

You always see on the threads re choosing private school or not "I didn't fit in because I was the poor kid" but this thread is pretending there's no gulf.

I think maybe you need to change how you socialise with them. Do invite them camping. Why not? Hosting in your garden is perfectly fine but if the disparity bothers you then meet up with them in a different way. I think your husband has a deep and old bond with them which means the financial differences don't bother him. In general people of hugely different finances don't socialise together unless they have a bond that predates the financial differences. For his sake I'd find a way to carry on but just redefine it.

Some people can socialise with wealthier and others can’t. It is as simple as that. Some people would feel comfortable to be the poorest in the group but be their best selves and others dread to feel perceived as poorer. I have been in both situations and I know I can only do it if people are really down to earth. With decent wealthy people is easier. They would appreciate you genuinely for who you are.

May be is not your case at all but social climbers are tricky as they discriminate poorer people when socialising. They usually only value people for what you can add to their goal or their social ladder. When they are down the ladder they feel very comfortable around wealthier people. Even if sometimes is a bit humiliating but they are focus on getting up so do not care.

Do what you makes you feel is best for your life and mental health.

So they're happy to come to your house and be hosted the way you host, even though they host in a different way.
They sound completely relaxed about the disparity and not as if they give off an impression that they think you're inferior.
And you say they're nice people.
The only real issue is you can't afford the cruises you go on.

I'm afraid to say I think the problem is with you. If you'd rather lose perfectly nice people as friends because of something going on in your head, knock yourself out. But I think it's a waste of what sound like good friends and nice times.

I find it strange that you assume everything is related to money.

I have 2 mates, friend A is not well off but is interested in appearance & has good taste/style, she's living in primani/bargains hunted on vinted but looks fab, does her own hair & nails and they always look really good. She is a bit into health & fitness so makes time to exercise & sleep well etc.

Friend B is loaded - yes her clothes are more pricey but you'd not know it, friend A looks better because friend B just isn't bothered! Friend B works in a bit of an intense highly paid job & prioritises earning more so has less time for exercise & sleep.

There will always be some kids with more "stuff". Plenty of very well off people drive bangers and holiday in cornwall out of choice.

It sounds to me like the differences you have with them are more about choices & values really than the money aspect, and that's fine, you don't have to socialise with people if you don't enjoy your time with them

Have you ever floated the idea of your kind of holiday? Ever said hey let take all the children to centre parcs for the weekend?

Or a pizza party or log cabins in the U.K. forests or such, or do you just sit listening to their chats about cruse ships going ahhh I wish in your head?

Though it sounds like you could plenty afford more than a tent or centre parcs just not their say 30k plus holidays to your 5-10k or whatever.

Not many people throw garden parties with restaurant catered food, djs etc and then just camp because they are skint 😅

"You'll never be able to compete with them"...... and? They are friends its not a competition.

If my friends were suggesting this i'd just say not for us thanks, can't afford to squizz on that money on a suite. We're going to center parcs - love it. Among my friends there'd prob then be a few people who actually fancied center parcs instead, and they'd probably be the ones with millions 😂

Most people with plenty of money still like a range of entertainmentd including cheaper options/simple pleasures. Dh and i have 250k annual income, we are going bog standard camping this year. Because its fun.

I get the difficulty especially when it's a group and you're the 'odd one out' because of the way the conversations will go. They are friends, but you feel a bit of an outsider. It can happen when people have kids, or get married and you are single, or buy houses and you still rent. All kinds of things like that. It doesn't mean you don't like them or they are not friends, but the disparity can be 'felt' quite keenly
I'm inclined to agree but also think some people are quite insecure too.

Obviously outside of MN-land people with millions are unlikely to have lots in common with someone they've just met living below the poverty line, but friends with a shared history and shared interests should be able to remain friends and socialise with their spouses. I'd be really disappointed if DH decided he wasn't going to socialise with my friends based on how their husbands groom themselves, what clothes they wear and what their salaries were.

There can be a gulf, but it's not automatic. There are rich people who are raging snobs and have spent their lives climbing the greasy pole and others who couldn't give a tinker's cuss about how much money others have.

Likewise there are poorer people who are inverted snobs and characterise everyone wealthy in two dimensional terms as a Tory Toff and others who are comfortable with themselves and have a much more nuanced understanding. That's a personal prejudice thing, not a wealth thing.

Big disparities in wealth are noticeable and it would absurd to pretend they don't exist but they don't have to be an automatic barrier.

There are many reasons to like people or not like them: their politics, their sense of humour, their interests, the way they treat other people. Wealth is not the only differentiator.

That doesn't mean you should tolerate being made to feel inadequate or uncomfortable, but I think a lot of people are their own worst enemies here.

If you take as a given that everyone will look down on you because of your income, you are limiting yourself before you've even started meeting people. You are potentially missing out on loads of interesting and nice people purely based on a demographic check box.

More importantly, you're also signalling to your children that they can only expect to be accepted and welcomed by people on similar income levels as them. Which is a really shit message to give them.

I absolutely get how you feel, OP

As a man, I hate socialising with my partners friends who are significantly better off than us.

At best they are unintentionally patronising, at worse downright boastful and unashamedly materialistic.

It just makes me feel inadequate and emasculated, and really daft old fashioned stuff like I haven't provided for my family properly.

Yep, I understand totally.

Why are you just focusing on aesthetic/ surface level? If you enjoy their company, that’s what matters. If not, don’t see them. Grass is always greener as well - I have met many rich people who are far from happy

I think this is the crux. Nice, kind, funny, thoughtful and supportive people come in all income brackets (and no income too). It really is how they are not what they have/do, that matters.

i have 2 very well off friends, and all my other friends live in large homes, take regular overseas holidays etc etc. I live in a HA flat, have a small, fixed income and can’t afford any holidays. I left an abusive relationship homeless and my ex left me with massive debts and nothing else. My friends have never made me feel in any way inferior. They all have their own struggles in life and we support each other. They don’t choose massively expensive places to eat when we are all together as they know I can’t afford it or would struggle.

If you genuinely like these people, I would tell them when they next arrange to all go to an ££££ restaurant, holiday, etc, that it sounds great but you’ll have to pass as it’s just too expensive but look forward to meeting up when they get back. If they aren’t understanding or in any way you feel looked down on, then that will tell you a lot.

@Thepeopleversuswork I don't disagree with anything you have said. I just think it's a different dynamic when everyone in a particular group is in a completely different league

Good point about ‘it’s how they make you feel.’

some very old friends of ours (our closest friends) have suddenly find very well out of bonuses and inheritances.

They bought very flashy cars and made a huge deal of it. Took us to the garage so we could admire the new purchase, then turned and asked ‘when are you changing your car?’

we had no plans to change our car.

their kids also started judging people by what car they drive and things like that. I find it really tacky and disappointing.

If you were struggling financially I’d understand this OP but the disparity isn’t that great. They may envy (not in a bad way) you and your DH for other things you are unaware of. If they are otherwise nice people I think this may be your own insecurities or possibly a bit of jealousy coming into play (don’t mean that to sound unkind).

I understand where you are coming from OP but if you enjoy the company of these friends I really think it would be a shame to distance yourselves. How does your DH feel about it?

I'm in a similar situation when comparing myself to friends who have a similar lifestyle to the one you have (big house, can afford centre parcs etc.)

Of all my good friends, I have the least money. It didn't used to bother me at all, as none of them are dicks about it and are sensitive re suggesting holidays etc. that I can't afford.

However, since becoming a lone parent and trying to handle working enough to support our family on one income, doing all house-related work (cleaning, DIY, garden etc.) as well as bringing up my DC, the disparity I'm starting to feel is one of time and energy. Trying to keep on top of everything is almost all-consuming for me whereas most of my friends have cleaners, have their ironing done for them, just call in a plumber to reseal the bath etc. because they can afford all this. I have to do as much as I can myself because paying people to do everything is out of the question. I have had a phase of feeling a tiny bit of jealousy re just having the money to throw at problems/regular chores. However, I'm trying to keep this in check because it's no one's fault this difference in situation.

I also feel a bit of discomfort that the kids of these friends are being taken on multiple lovely foreign holidays plus centre parcs etc. through the year and my DC are at the age where they will start noticing this and might feel that they are missing out.

I feel myself gravitating naturally towards spending more time with our friends who are a bit more similar to us so that the disparity isn't so great but at the same time I'm trying to resist this because our wealthier friends are good friends and lovely people. The issue here is with me (and the same with you) and we have to try and work out what's important. Properly good nice friends don't grow on trees after all!

I sort of understand - I caught up with a couple I knew about 20 years ago at a wedding last year. I have a solid public sector professional lifestyle, they probably earn 20 times more a year, each.

After a low=energy conversation, I wondered whether they had learned to assume that successful = worth knowing. People in my field just do not count. I kept the conversation focused on them, but I bored them.

They talked about how awful and stressful London is, and how people are too aggressive and status-oriented. But they felt trapped because the children are in school.

(People can also be aggressive and status-oriented in my field, though just paid a lot less.)

I came away thinking that some hefty taxation might do them, and the rest of us, the world of good and perhaps give them permission to reduce their hours. They used to be great fun! Hopefully they still are underneath when not shattered and resentful!

That’s the reality though, most people have friends in a similar socio-economic group and yes the OP probably wouldn’t have much in common with the person you have described and are unlikely in the real world to be friends.

@troubg

But it's rarely the case that everyone is in a completely different league. Unless you're at Eton College sports day or something that is an unlikely situation.

If you feel insecure about your income status you will be seeing this with a particular lens but what may look like a homogenous group will have different gradations within it which you probably aren't aware of. There may be two families who superficially look the same to you because they have bigger houses but actually one family is super wealthy and the other is mortgaged to the hilt and struggling to keep up.

Most people are at some level insecure about their wealth and status in certain situations and you can't avoid that.

The only way to deal with it is to be as confident and unapologetic as you can and take people as you find them. Some people may look down on you and there's nothing you can do about that. But you will rarely be uniformly looked down on by every single person in a given social situation. Most people are too wrapped up in their own concerns and insecurities to notice.

I socialise with millionaires and people on benefits, and everyone in between. What's in your bank doesn't shape the person, unless you let it.

Everything Mrs Bennett has said!
I have friends who are ridiculously wealthy Inc sisters partner, sons GF parents and a few a couple of sports professionals and I also have friends who are absolutely skint ...hope they don't judge me because we are comfortable!
Love all of them and all coming to my party for my Big Birthday.
Comparison is the thief of joy !

You're really limiting your social circle if you only socilise with people in the same income bracket as you. Or I guess you'd feel ok socialising with people in a lower income bracket?

I get that you feel a bit jealous and insecure of your standing around them, but you should try to get past that. You don't have to join them on their cruise. Just like some of your friends might not be able to afford to join you for your Centre Parcs holiday but I don't suppose you'd judge them for that, well hopefully not.

It's good for kids to interact with people from all walks of life. It's good for them to see lifestyles that they may aspire to, whether that's a wealthy lifestyle or a charity worker on a minimum wage. All are valuable and it opens kids horizons to mix with all. I hope for your DC's sake that you can get past your feelings of insecurity and enjoy having a varied social circle.