To intervene in DS's relationship?

[AlyssaHasAChaaaaild]

DS and his girlfriend are both 20. Met in 6th form and have dated ever since, now both at different Unis and keeping things going long distance.

She is from a strict religious background and made clear at the start there would be no sex before marriage. 2 years in they are being a bit physical but not even close to or considering having sex.

Her mum has got wind of this and is furious, and blames DS for "corrupting" her. There is no question around consent, it's just the religious principle that she can't accept that her daughter would do anything physical before marriage and so he is to blame.

Her mum has said the relationship can only continue if he agrees to go and have a sit down chat with her so she can explain why she is angry with him and set some ground rules. Girlfriend seems to agree this is a reasonable idea, DS is pretty horrified at the prospect but feels if he doesn't agree then the relationship will end.

I'm trying to bite my tongue because I know he adores her and I have seen how happy they are together. But FFS this seems insane to me and I want to tell him to run for the hills. I feel like even if he does this it's only a matter of time before the mum pipes up and interferes about something else.

TBH it's the girlfriend I'm most angry with as I feel like she has thrown him to the wolves and is letting this happen. I think she is a bit scared of her mum but that doesn't excuse her letting DS get painted as the bad guy.

But if I say this to DS am I being interfering too?

She's also been told that "if she makes bad choices even if she can justify them to herself Jesus will hate her"

Woo someone has seriously misunderstood their New Testament! Jesus is always about forgiveness not hate!

I'd be yelling to get away from the pair of them because they're both as mad as a box of frogs!

Thanks for the fresh comments.
To answer a few questions and comments:

Mum is very much in a bubble. She doesn't work thanks to family money. Has a couple of voluntary roles but doesn't engage with any colleagues socially. She has two siblings who she sees very often, one is unmarried, the other married with 2 young kids. DS described them as normal but boring! That's pretty much it. She still lives in the house in which she grew up and has never really ventured from their home village except to the holiday home abroad where they go regularly, but even there she just keeps herself to herself.

I think DS wouldn't like the idea of counselling anymore than he likes this because as far as he's aware there is nothing to discuss. He and G were doing just fine working things out until now. G hasn't given any explanation for what has changed specifically, just that on reflection she wants to go back to nothing physical.

@Nosleepforthismum If G had taken this approach then I think DS would have been more relaxed, but the worry is that G seems to think this is a great idea that they have an open chat about sex.

@Godlovesall26 Early on G said that her mum would never approve of DS because he isn't a practising Christian but the two of them decided that they'd carry on regardless because it was her life to do as she pleased and G was confident that over time her mum would acccept DS if she saw that he was a nice guy etc.

Mum hasn't been unfriendly towards him at all except for a couple of shitty comments about the meaning of Christmas which he shrugged off.

She happily chauffeurs G around and enables the relationship and welcomes DS into her house and has even invited him to go abroad with them to the holiday home. They genuinely, naively, thought that religion would not be such a barrier.

It's not interfering to have a frank chat with your ds and share your feelings openly.

Raise some of the points made here.

Would a girl/woman expect to be summoned by her bf's mum or dad?

What future does this relationship have?

This woman and her Mum are controlling. Mum is clearly using religion as a tool to manipulate her daughter.

Interfering would be summoning his girlfriend to a meeting with you (or his Dad). Or ringing her Mum and discussing them.

You're so right to encourage him in other interests and friendships.

A 20 year old man having a "lets sit down and talk about sex" conversation with his girlfriends mother is just all kinds of weird.

I'm still stuck on this. How on earth is it any of the mother's business - regardless of "religion" - what her 20 year old adult daughter is doing? Whether that is having friends to stay at uni or shagging her way around town or doing neither - she's twenty FFS.

Well, I mean, the answer’s in your reply. He may be what you call in my native European language, for strict families with teens who still want to go through the steps their peers are, ‘a safe time filler’. Respectful of her boundaries, everyone’s happy, but the goal is still finding the ‘real’ husband. I’m a bit at a loss why your DS is accepting of all this. True colors are showing now

GF and her mum are also free to live their ‘boring’ lives how they wish at the end of the day.
From the update it doesn’t sound like there was any deception though.
Does your son intend on becoming a practicing Christian (unsure what the mum’s detailed views are, but you say CoE) ? Otherwise, naive when he met her yes, now though, depending on what GF has been reassuring her mum about also, could be seen as slightly deceptive from him also. I think I kind of understand the mum’s reaction better. If he has no intention to convert, when she still obviously is going back to it, he needs to let her go and free her chances of a partner that would suit her more, in time, which would be a completely different notion for them.

I think the Mum is lost.
She likes the boy, sees her DD is happy with him. But is sitting herself that very soon she could end up with an empty nest and doesn't have any other identity other than widow and mother.

Religion is secondary to all of it.

Very insightful good thoughts on here. Mumnetters may be incorrect?! (Doubt it) But absolutely yes I would be getting involved and having this conversation with him so he has food for thought/ able to weigh up. Despite 20 he's still learning and may not be able to see the wood for the trees.

Gf can advocate for herself, she's a consenting adult with capacity. As she's conditioned/under mums influence/religious, I worry too that you'd kick yourself if your boy married too young, false allegations, made to feel shitty if gf feels guilty and changed her mind, and may do this again?!.

In his defence in this situation -
reg gf feeling guilty, gf mum angry, wants chat about sex,- worth him explaining to gf (and gf mum) effects of this on him!!! Feeling unsafe/trustaffected/guilty/shameful/ worried moving forward.

he won't want to feel like this or be in this situation again! so how do they progress? Sounds like he's done nothing wrong and is a lovely respectful boy, man!!. I Think it's great he talks to you so openly, well done mum xx hope he has fun at uni xx

Yeah, as I stated, no one should get involved in a consentual adult relationship. However, it would be more impartial than the GF mother for sure and may give a different perspective than the reteroic the GF is currently listening to. The OP's DS seems very sensible, and she should be very proud of the well-rounded man he is.

This sounds absolutely awful. Can you book him on a lads summer holiday with some mates to somewhere like Magaluf? Help him get a bit a space from her and her equally awful mother, and hopefully he’ll realise for himself that what’s going on is absolutely batshit, and that it’s possible, nay, normal, to be young, and have fun with grown women whose mothers aren’t obsessed with their sex lives. Honestly, I’d want him to split up with her ASAP, and I’d do whatever I could to help him see that the dynamic is toxic and bloody miserable. Imagine sharing grandchildren with this woman. And imagine the messaging the GF will give to those kids.

Reading other people’s replies how many are of the opinion that the mum will be putting down an ultimatum of “if you wanna continue seeing my daughter and touch her hand, you better marry her?”
Like another poster said, send him on a holiday with friends to see the world outside his girlfriend’s strict confines. He doesn’t need to go crazy but a bit of a breather away from all that could be good.

Practicing Christina yet never attends church, maybe if she did she would see her interpretation of C of E is very outdated.

This! Totally agree.

So your son has to remain a virgin as long as this relationship continues because her mother says so? Imagine what she’d be like if they got married, she sounds a right interfering OB. Tell him it’s between them and not her mother (who will only know what daughter has told her!).

@Henrysmycat possibly but only because she is completely lost and sees her next role in life as a Grandma.

Which at 40 is really sad. And thinking about it she must still have been in her 20s when she was widowed.

Her DD is her life and she seems terrified of letting her go and grow up. Guilt tripping her into coming home from Uni every weekend.

I almost think the girl alone should seek some sort of councilling via the church to help her see her mum cannot live her life for her.

This, exactly this.

I feel sorry for Mum in some ways as she was widowed so young and has devoted her life to her daughter ever since. On the other hand her devotion seems to have veered somewhat off course IMO.

GF never went on school trips, never had a part time job, was driven to and from school every day and her life just revolves around her mum and slightly wider family. She has the best of everything materially but has been so sheltered. I thought that going off to Uni would be the making of her but then I realised she was going home every weekend and hasn't really developed much of a student life at all.

So I agre

...... agree that mum is terrified of losing her, but think GF must also be terrified of cutting loose in any way.

Even if she wants to break away I'm sure she'd feel guilty about going against her mum who has done so much for her.

It does sound like the Mother / Daughter relationship needs help, to loosen the apron strings.

Could the mother be guilt tripping 'I don't know what I'd do without you, oh I miss you so much when your away, I'm scared something happens to you.

The Dad died young, so it may well have been a sudden death, heart attack, or accident that has left deep fears too.

It's all that stuff at the root of this. But maybe, just maybe, it's a sincere belief that sex before marriage is wrong.

So while my initial thoughts were that his Dad should go with him to 'meet' the mother.
I'm now thinking that she needs help to stand up to her mum and make her mum realise she is a young adult who needs to make her own path in the world.

This is all horrible and so, so wrong. But a little bell is ringing for me here- this isn't a ploy by the girlfriend to get engaged is it? Maybe I'm being cynical but is she using her mum to force your son into a corner?

Religion can be abnormal or unreasonable.

In fact, strictly speaking, all religion is unreasonable by default. It relies on faith, not reason.

If these two people came together with the same beliefs and made this decision for their relationship themselves that's one thing. When only one person wants to wait and that want is coming from something external to the relationship that's going to be more of a problem for the other partner.

There's no sex switch that can suddenly be flipped and I think he could be facing a really difficult long term with this girl and all the other interferences in their relationship. He'd be better off with someone who sex would be a private matter with and they could take their time to explore that side of the relationship without trying to please anyone else.

He’s 20 in a different uni. It’s time to split up

They may well naturally drift apart with them being at different Unis but the girl needs help to see the damage her mum could do.
When is she going to stop her mum chasing away her potential partners, and dictating her relationships?