To intervene in DS's relationship?

[AlyssaHasAChaaaaild]

DS and his girlfriend are both 20. Met in 6th form and have dated ever since, now both at different Unis and keeping things going long distance.

She is from a strict religious background and made clear at the start there would be no sex before marriage. 2 years in they are being a bit physical but not even close to or considering having sex.

Her mum has got wind of this and is furious, and blames DS for "corrupting" her. There is no question around consent, it's just the religious principle that she can't accept that her daughter would do anything physical before marriage and so he is to blame.

Her mum has said the relationship can only continue if he agrees to go and have a sit down chat with her so she can explain why she is angry with him and set some ground rules. Girlfriend seems to agree this is a reasonable idea, DS is pretty horrified at the prospect but feels if he doesn't agree then the relationship will end.

I'm trying to bite my tongue because I know he adores her and I have seen how happy they are together. But FFS this seems insane to me and I want to tell him to run for the hills. I feel like even if he does this it's only a matter of time before the mum pipes up and interferes about something else.

TBH it's the girlfriend I'm most angry with as I feel like she has thrown him to the wolves and is letting this happen. I think she is a bit scared of her mum but that doesn't excuse her letting DS get painted as the bad guy.

But if I say this to DS am I being interfering too?

UPDATE

Oh boy.........

DS and GF have been discussing an event they were due to go to at the end of June, and GF said that the chat needs to happen before then.

DS asked if there is anything GF is unhappy about and wants to raise with him re sex etc He said I thought things were understood between us but if I'm wrong please set me straight. However, I want to have this conversation with you and not your mum as I don't think it is any of her business.

GF said that if he loved her then he will talk to her mum and just face whatever she has to say, even if she is angry.

DS asked what she can possibly be angry about?

GF said she's disappointed in them both for being physical and going against their (GF and mum)'s core values.

DS said well you consented and were happy so what's the problem?

GF said well yes I did consent but now I want to step back from all physical stuff and think waiting until marriage is a good idea after all.

DS said ok if that's what you want then I'm ok with that, as that's what you said in the first place and I always said I'd respect your wishes.

GF said but I still want you to hear my mum out because she wants to be sure you understand that it's better if we both wait and do nothing physical at all.

DS said - I've heard it from you and agreed, I don't need to hear anything from her.

GF said that's not enough.

DS said he'll think about it.

So, I think things are actually marginally worse now FFS

I’d tell him to move on! She sounds absolutely conditioned to believe that sex is wrong. Who’d want in-laws like her mum?! It’s just so weird and controlling and wrong. He is a grown man, not a horny 15 year old! How infantilising this whole thing must be for him!

I think your DS handled it well TBH.

He's made his point - nothing to do with her Mum- she made her position clear she still want him to do meeting.

He now needs to think how he's comfortable proceeding and it's now clear GF here is fully on board with her mother view and can't see the boundary crossing going on but your DS can.

What happens in their relationship is no business of anyone else's. At 20 I was living with my then boyfriend, and I would have been horrified if my parents had decided they needed to have a sit down discussion with him about the colour of the kitchen, let alone our sex life.

Fast forward this a couple of years, her mother gets her way on this. She now knows she can brow beat her daughter into anything she wants to. Where the girl lives, where she works, what they call their first child, on and on and on. I don't think I could live with that in a relationship. I feel for your son, it's really shitty, but I think he's got it right, what goes between them matters, her mothers opinion isn't relevant. Of she can't accept that then it doesn't look good for them.

Tbh I think your son should step away now. I would absolutely not want anyone else to have that much say over my sex life. I’d also worry about long term impacts on my sex life if I was your son, since it is clear that his girlfriend has a lot of shame around sex and sexuality. Sex is supposed to be fun.

The only reason the GF has changed her tune about whatever they have done, is she's obviously told her demented mother who has guilted and shamed her.
Your DS needs to walk away, they no the sound unhinged and controlling, his innocent little GF is very manipulative and likely has learned that from her DM

His girlfriend is now being controlling

I would encourage him to say something along the lines of

’I always want to respect your wishes first and foremost, for me that’s a priority. It’s inappropriate for us both if I speak to your mum about our sex life so it’s not happening. To be honest name I find it a bit uncomfortable that you think this is okay, does it not bother you at all? You should be able to make your own choices and not feel obligated to involve your mum. I’m taking a step back from this now, I hope you have a good evening.’

He’s not being treated very well at all.

OP your son honestly sounds like such a good man. I don’t know many 20 something yr old university students who would be ok with no sex before marriage.

DS said he'll think about it

Fingers crossed he thinks about it and realises this relationship isn't worth continuing. It will always be on the mother's terms.

If this couple had consensual sex and the mother found out I wouldn't trust the GF to admit to her mother that she consented. That is far more worrying than whether the OP's son should listen to a lecture on good boys shouldn't touch nice girls.

I can't remember who posted this, so forgive me, but I was thinking this very same thing.

GF is clearly controlled by her mother, and appears to be incapable of independent thought.

I would be worried sick that if their relationship continued, and even if your son and GF did not engage in full sexual intercourse, any "heavy petting" (as they used to call it!) could be deemed by mother to be non consensual and your son could be hung out to dry by the pair of them should they decide to involve the police.

And worse - should they have full penetrative intercourse, would GF and/or her mother cry rape.

I'm sorry if that comes over as blunt.

You sound like a wonderful mum with your son's best interests at heart. He is young and at the start of his university and professional life. He should be enjoying this stage in his life, his first time away from home, and his first forays into adulthood. He should not be at the mercy of the controlling demands of his GF and her mum.

Has he established any friendship groups at uni? I hope he has.

GF is entitled to her boundaries. But so is your son. If the demands being placed upon him would mean he crossed a line he was not comfortable with then he does not have to cross it. GF and mum do not have a monopoly on this.

Also, there has been some mention that mum should be shown some tolerance because she's widowed and GF is her only daughter. I'm a young widow - my daughters were 10 & 12 when my husband died. They're young adults now. I would not dream of conducting myself like this with any boyfriend they brought home. That's not to say that they have not been given "appropriate guidance" as they have matured. 😀

I'm also a member of the C of E and go to church weekly.

Good luck, OP, and I hope your son makes the best decision for himself!

I don't think you are right though. Through the ages sex came with the very real possibility of pregnancy. Through the ages women were the weaker sex ( when work was mainly physical or when we were hunter gatherers) and even later when she couldn't own property or make her won money (think victorian England) she was 'weaker' in terms of needing someone to provide for her. Why would she have sex outside of marriage? And by marriage I don't mean legally, like with the paper or in a church. Any way. In some cultures the act of sex signified the start of marriage. Although some of this is due to religion. Christian, muslim etc, most of it was just biology. Yeah sorry I still the the luxury of having sex outside of marriage was not common esp for women. Far more commen for men yes, ie in victorian England a man was 'expected' to sow wild oats. It wasn't frowned upon

Very sensible message! Far worse than the mom 'wanting the talk' is the gf clearly not standing up for her bf. It seems as if she leads her mom to think she was coerced which does not bode well for if they continue their relationship and it ends up being sexual (pregnancy could be a possibility as I doubt gf is in bc as she's not sexually active)

I think things are actually marginally worse now FFS

In many ways that may be no bad thing, if it prods DS into the realisation that this isn't for him

FWIW I really admire the way he's handled this today, making it clear he'll respect GF's wishes but that the issue is between them and nobody else.
The GF's absolutely entitled to her own boundaries - though I still think there's a risk to him here as she chops and changes - but what she's NOT entitled to is to bring someone else into their relationship in the way she's currently doing

Please dont be angry with the girl. She is only product of her upbringing and still too young to realise this and dare to make her own opinions, let alone to act on them.

I am now curious what the little physical contact is. You say its not very intimate so it may not even be the thing that triggered the other Mums anxiety and controlling behaviour.

Having read your latest update, I really hope that your ds walks away. The girlfriend sounds quite damaged and it won't end well.

Your ds sounds like a very decent young man, but honestly, he deserves better than this.

Your son sounds as though he has a sensible head on his shoulders and is being respectful.

This all sounds very difficult and controlling and I too would be worried about their future and any mixed signals going forward in case it led to any unfounded allegations.

I hope your DS gradually comes to the realisation that relationships do not normally have this level of control and interference from a mother of a grown adult of 20. He should be enjoying himself at Uni, making new friends, having relationships etc. And ultimately yes having sex (consensual sex) with his girlfriend in an ideal world at his age.

Of course his GF is entitled to set her own boundaries, whatever they may be, but they should be hers and not the wishes of her mother.

Thanks to everyone who has posted and understood how delicate this, I've read every reply and appreciate all the suggestions and advice.

DS is a lovely young man I think and I hate seeing him so upset. This should have been a lovely carefree summer and I'm worried it's now going to be a bit of a nightmare whether this ends now or drags on. I don't know which is worse.

I find myself wishing for September when he can go back to Uni and immerse himself back into student life again. He's not a big party animal but has some friends and a couple of interests and I think he'll do even more if he isn't distracted by DD.

I think you're right to back your son up. He shouldn't be made to discuss his personal life with someone he isn't comfortable with.

I'm going to be blunt, after all this interference even if they do later marry it could be a hard road to undo the effects of this and have a comfortable sex life. You can't always say vows and instantly shrug off this programming. Your son needs to think if this is the right approach for him because it's not for everyone.

I really hope that everything the girlfriend is saying just makes him realise what he is involved in. As someone else said, it is meant to be fun!

Ok. First, I think your Ds is very mature and respectful toward his gf. Well done to you as his mother.

Second, you could advise your Ds to think long term. If he marries her, will her mother push to make him join the church (even though her parents don’t regularly attend themselves you said)? Because he is not interested in it at all so will that cause problems and conflicts in the future (children getting baptized etc)? They have fundamentally different beliefs and even though he respects her and she respects him, when they’re married the differences will become starker. If her mother is so invested now, will she try to control the marriage in general when/if that happens? Will her daughter defer to her mother in everything instead of working with her husband on making decisions? If so, he will be miserable will he not?

Last, I can relate to her mother regarding respect for the sex act and how it is part of the sacrament of marriage. I don’t think that specifically is a problem. Nothing wrong or scary about waiting to have sex within marriage. People have gone wacky with the prevailing position that sex is simply something that must be had anytime anywhere and with anyone, no questions or boundaries are allowed, that mentality makes no sense to me, they’ve gone so far to the other extreme just to prove some weird point. Sex is a huge responsibility and it is how we make new human beings so yes it should be respected instead of treating it as primarily a leisure activity where the default is to dismiss the creative aspect of it. So, what is disturbing in this situation is not the waiting for marriage but the controlling that the mother wants to do that is the problem.

I think your son handled it perfectly. He made it clear that he respects his gf’s wish to step back from the physicality and also made clear that her mother is not his boss and does not get to dictate to him. His gf can reassure her if she wants, as he made clear. He could talk to the mother but I’m afraid that would give her power over him and “prove” to her daughter that he will “obey” her just as daughter does. Do not set the precedent. Advise him to stick to what he has already said and not budge. Because her mother needs to know without a shadow of a doubt that she is not the one ultimately who will make the decisions in their relationship. She can hope that the sex starts after marriage. But she can’t force her way. She can guide and advise but then she has to stop. They are adults and it’s not healthy to be a domineering parent.

Your DS sounds a lovely person, not many people his age would accept a relationship without physical intimacy, I hope they manage to deal with this hurdle

20 is old enough to recognise batshit behaviour. At what age can we start to blame people for their actions?

I'm angry with GF because she's 20 and smart enough to think for herself.

But I also recognise that she and her mum are a tight unit and this is how they have been since she was 7 ie pretty much all that she remembers. I think she might be scared of her mum and probably feels some responsibility not to upset her high expectations.

I feel sorry for her because I think this is really damaging for her. I suspect they won't survive this and I think she will be really upset and maybe confused.

I actually think the relationship ending will be good for the girlfriend - it will hopefully make her re-evaluate things. Also she should also be having fun at university.

Yes, I do as well.

I'm sure she'll be hurt. But once the initial shock has worn off, it might encourage her to start questioning things for herself. Including her own part in the fact that the relationship broke down despite him being extremely respectful of her beliefs and wishes.

She sounds extremely enmeshed with her Mum, which is very unhealthy.