To intervene in DS's relationship?

[AlyssaHasAChaaaaild]

DS and his girlfriend are both 20. Met in 6th form and have dated ever since, now both at different Unis and keeping things going long distance.

She is from a strict religious background and made clear at the start there would be no sex before marriage. 2 years in they are being a bit physical but not even close to or considering having sex.

Her mum has got wind of this and is furious, and blames DS for "corrupting" her. There is no question around consent, it's just the religious principle that she can't accept that her daughter would do anything physical before marriage and so he is to blame.

Her mum has said the relationship can only continue if he agrees to go and have a sit down chat with her so she can explain why she is angry with him and set some ground rules. Girlfriend seems to agree this is a reasonable idea, DS is pretty horrified at the prospect but feels if he doesn't agree then the relationship will end.

I'm trying to bite my tongue because I know he adores her and I have seen how happy they are together. But FFS this seems insane to me and I want to tell him to run for the hills. I feel like even if he does this it's only a matter of time before the mum pipes up and interferes about something else.

TBH it's the girlfriend I'm most angry with as I feel like she has thrown him to the wolves and is letting this happen. I think she is a bit scared of her mum but that doesn't excuse her letting DS get painted as the bad guy.

But if I say this to DS am I being interfering too?

CofE? Blimey. Don't they know we're in the 21st Century now? So many alarm bells ringing. Unfortunately all you can do is remain calm, listen and advise. And be there for your DS if and when they hopefully split up

There are so many things that are 'off' with the way their relationship is expected to be conducted, but even if things are smoothed over and they continue as they did before

Sorry, posted accidentally before finishing. I'd be concerned that her wanting to wait until she was married, could lead to your son feeling pressured to marry someone who he doesn't really know properly and who actually might not be the right person for him. It would mean they wouldn't have lived together or even really spent any length of time together alone. Most men don't marry before they are in their thirties these days, so I'm guessing he's not going to wait another 10 years? Getting married young so you can have a sexual relationship isn't really the best reason, is it?

Mum sounds unhinged. I'd be encouraging ds to run a mile

Carrie vibes 😳

I had to chuckle a bit about the C of E but don't go to Church yet have all these rules and a lack of respect for boundaries? I can see why you are worried @AlyssaHasAChaaaaild

I imagine the girl has experienced a lot of control and may just be repeated what her parents have said. I would try not to lay too much blame on the girlfriend. But very hard situation all round.

It’s actually a bit creepy, as though she’s somehow trying to be involved in their sex life vs stopping it. She doesn’t want her daughter doing something she’s not able to control / be involved with. I don’t think it’s about Jesus…

There’s no way on earth she wouldn’t be a creepy controlling MIL and the thought of grandchildren - he’d never be rid of her.

It’s sad for the daughter but clear she’s no way near disentangling herself and likely will struggle to do so at all.

Its a no from me. Image if a father wanted to speak to his Son's GF about sex/values etc in their relationship, it would not be seen as being appropriate in any form, so I don't see why the Mother feels its acceptable for her to speak with your Son nor interfere in their relationship.

I would be tempted to have a chat with GF and probs even the mother and mention the adult couple's entitlement to privacy. Its all very well being honest with family, but there's a line of what you should say and what is no one else's business to know or ask, including family.

imagine not image...

Hi @AlyssaHasAChaaaaild
Have only read for now about half the thread tbh, but have read all your updates.

Couple things

• the not attending any church when you’re a member of such a frequent denomination here stands out to me, I’ll be honest I have many friends from different faiths and they only do it because they’re the more ‘relaxed’ type who doesn’t want to spend their weekends there / kept the faith but not all the practices as adults, etc. Some of this previous ‘category’ also attend for the social aspect. Or they have to work etc. I admit I don’t know any people who claim to be fervent believers but don’t participate in the life of the faith they claim to be central to their lives.
• I admit I don’t know any 20yo with parents with this view who then share details of their intimacy with their parents ! Most, especially at uni, do whatever and don’t tell them, or adhere by choice. GF sounds confused in herself.
• I would be extremely worried about your son being ‘blamed’ for corrupting her, that’s the main thing that stands out to me from your post. I would suggest if this conversation does happen, you invite the mum to dinner with both you and your husband present. These situations are unfortunate but not inexistant sadly, and the GF has already shown how she would react.
• The point is supposed to be (for most) that Jesus/other prophets/God/…. love you…. Not have a camera over you to decide if they’ll hate you…
• I also don’t know any very practicing people who marry outside of their faiths. For those who hold these views re sex outside of marriage, those I know married young (around 21-22 is a bit more common now than 18, then again they’d have been engaged and marriage planning for a while), with partners in agreement (hence one aspect of the places of worship socializing which can be more intense usually in these cases : they need to meet those partners first!). So they’ve made their decision by 20 usually around how they wish to live their lives. And no future headaches about practices.

Sorry, a little long, I’m pretty ‘liberal’ myself but never mind me, Ive always liked hearing about different faiths/viewpoints so have quite a wide circle, this particular family sounds way too complicated tbh, I couldn’t deal personally sorry

Having experienced first hand of “religious” control, whether your DS stays or not, religion and religious control will always be the 3rd person in the relationship.
He’ll end up being married young or stay with a person out of duty because once they messed around in bed (With her consent).
Religion will always be used as an excuse at everything including quick wedding. Her parents will always interfere. Will he ever live his life with Jesus playing such a huge role? It’s insanely horrible, tiring and controlling. Look at cults. He needs to run. The world is full of people and many of them are nice, lovely, thoughtful and whatever else he wants, he can do better. I can put him in contact with a person that did follow the instruction of religious inlaws and kept on making allowances and agreeing to more and more controlling life, it destroyed his life. He divorced at 45 and starting to rebuild his life.

Sorry all my bullet points have disappeared, hope it still shows up on your screens with a semblance of paragraphs☺️
Also mentioning for ref Im 32, and we’ve always been more of a ‘faith is between you and God’ and ‘all faiths have common values’ (well, the main monotheistic ones in my upbringing, although my circle has extended), and we don’t believe in heaven/hell, I have atheist friends also. We’ve never been pushed to actually do anything really, except be respectful of others and if you’re in a certain place try to adapt to the rules of that place, basic politeness really.

Most of my friends I would say have been like me, no intimacy before being adult, but relationships afterwards (not one night stands to caricature for most, but some definitely have, we don’t judge either, it’s just been a personal choice for most) and settled at various ages, but definitely more after 25 I’d say.

Most parents (even the ones who wish no sex - they just ensure intense earlier social connections) have moved way past the bullsh*t and don’t want their kid to get screwed over by some partner just because the faith is supposedly the same officially, so getting to know the person as much as possible (which everyone defines differently).

Even my 91yo old grandmother, bless her, very fragile and very conservative (definitely no sex) said not too long ago ‘I don’t know, times have changed, I’d at least buy him a puppy first (poor puppy) to see what he’ll look like with a baby, wait at least 20yo to see if he’s started working/studying, and I mean, not live together (!!), but maybe a nice cheap 2 week holiday with separate rooms where you’re both responsible for cooking and cleaning’.☺️

The girlfriend is old enough to convey her own values directly to your son. She doesn't need Mummy doing it for her. These are two adults. It's really inappropriate that the GF's mother talk to your son about this. She might not agree with their choices but it's their choice to make. I think your son has handled it well. He needs to think about the long term, if he continues with this relationship. Setting a precedent that his possible MIL has input into their relationship isn't a good idea.

This is not about religion. They're (notionally) CofE, for goodness sake!

The mother is using religion as a cover for intense control. And while you're focusing on the chat at this point, whether it happens or not, this is only the beginning of a life where he and GF will be tightly controlled by her mum.

I world be desperately worried about this relationship if it continues and they marry and have children. This woman will never let them be independent or make their own decisions. Your son would be signing himself up for a kind of prison, and his GF will never have his back in any disagreement about life decisions, if her mother has a different opinion from his..

I'd be talking to him about this. To get him to look beyond this chat to their life together for decades. Is he prepared to be controlled by this woman and for his life decisions to be made under threat of "if you loved me you would...."?

Last thing : I’d also be a bit worried about not having friends if I understand correctly. Friendships (again, usually at a younger age than 20) are usually hugely encouraged by the stricter parents. There’s an element of the peer pressure when younger, but especially when you do end up making your life decisions, you have people (other than an overbearing mum) to discuss them with. And most of all, a community (like any human who needs social interactions, but when your decisions are a little less frequent than the social frequency of where you live, it’s all the more important). I don’t know, there’s not enough elements really here, but they sound a little isolated in their (well, mum’s) bubble, that’s what’s making me a little wishing to heed precaution here, as much as I try not to judge, as I mentioned upthread, to quote my GM, ‘times have changed’

Ur his mum and your entitled to your opinions and to protect your son. I would definitely be telling the mother is controlling and that her sitting him down 4 this is not normal. Give your advice but it’s his decision good luck op

I would be intervening as she will be most probably pressuring your son into marriage.
My PIL are similar and as a result both of my SIL are married to completely unsuitable men, that would have been ancient history had they been encouraged to date and experience life beyond their first boyfriends.

Definitely not disputing the GF’s mum sounding nuts because that is very clear. However, I think there is a little hysteria on here when I don’t see this as being such a big deal. Sounds like mum has got wind of the relationship getting more serious and suspects it’s getting physical and is now giving daughter grief about it. GF is asking your DS to go and take some of the heat to make her life easier. I’d be telling DS to go, to lie through his teeth (as he’s clearly already going to hell) and agree with all her batshittery to make his GF’s life at home bearable. Then to just completely ignore and carry on exactly as they were 😁

Imo, this woman should be thanking her lucky stars her daughter met your son and he is willing to go along with whatever physical limitations in the relationship put in place due to their religion. So few boys that age would agree to that without piling on a shit ton of pressure and/or guilt.

Most religious lads i knew at that age were all for encouraging anal instead of regular sex to 'save the woman's virginity'. So it's not even likely she would find a man to respect her if she picked from inside the church. Bit you can be her wouldn't be getting a lecture!

I wouldn't be happy if this was my son but ultimately there's nothing you can really do if he wants to stay with his GF. I wouldn't want to go with him as I couldn't keep my mouth shut about it all but if he asked I obviously would go.

This girl is being manipulative too , she must have discussed their relationship with her mother and knew her mothers response , is she hoping for an engagement perhaps and mum too?

Op I actually think you or his Dad should go with him. More for Gs benefit than anything else.

The woman sounds terrified about loosing her DD. And has no DH to make her see reason. She if probably scared of what comes next for her. Her whole adult life has been marriage, widowhood and raising her DD to the best she could.
She's never been a single adult without responsibilities.
They met when she was 19, married baby at 20, widowed at 27, now 40 and doesn't know where to go next.

They are young adults and she needs to see that. They need to make their own decisions and be comfortable with them.

But she needs to let go or she'll loose her DD.

I do get the not wanting to go because it condones the idea that adults should discuss their love lives with their parents. I'd just be assuring your son that this is an abnormal thing to do and encouraging him to be confident with his boundaries.

Just a thought, could they go to the local church relationship Councillors. They could guide how to respect her/her mothers religion but a more possibly healthy view than the Mothers on sex and physical stuff both before and after marriage. Plus, they both get to air their views in a much healthier environment than being dictated to by the mother. Now, normally, I wouldn't recommend reglion getting involved in personal relationships, but in this case, the mothers' views are so severe. Could be good for the daughter to get an alternative viewpoint on her own faith. Don't let the mother choose the person who may be even worse. Good luck 🍀

Found this on C of E website..it can be taken down if not appropriate. Seems like the mother would just find someone with her own views.
You need someone as impartial as possible for them. So any local councilling would be perfect, but maybe the C of E might be helpful in this case.

www.achurchnearyou.com/

Yeah I don't see how someone religious can be genuinely impartial about this tbh @Littlemissmagnet

It's inappropriate IMO for third parties to be involved in the sex life (or lack thereof) of this young couple in their first relationship.

I think suggesting they go to counselling of some sort as a couple is sort of reinforcing that there's something he needs to understand that he doesn't understand.

But he is incredibly understanding and respectful from what OP says. He's happy to go at her pace, just not happy for her mum to get involved and have discussions with him about his sex life.