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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Fellow mum never reciprocates with play dates

181 replies

Voodoo43 · 12/06/2023 20:10

My dd is friends with a local mother’s kids. She is a nice woman. We have a lot in common & get on. I have invited her & her kids over many times but we never get a reciprocal invite. I have known her nearly 5 years now. I know she has some issue with people coming round. She has said her house is messy. Mine is too & we do not have an impressive lifestyle at all. The lack of reciprocation has got me down so I now tend to just suggest we only meet up outside my home. She is always keen to meet. She likes me. I am too scared to ask her why she doesn’t like people to come round in case it is due to some trauma. She is a very private person. AIBU in finding her lack of reciprocation unfair?

OP posts:
Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 15:49

OrderOfTheKookaburra · 13/06/2023 08:06

I stand by there being an expectation for a level of reciprocity. It doesn't need to be equal, it doesn't need to be identical, but it does need to be something. Because otherwise if there's never anything in it for me, it won't continue.

My DC seeing their friend, yep, worthwhile. But if they have a number of friends and this one isn't a bestie then I doubt I would prioritise, but I wouldn't stop it.

Me spending time with a friend, again, there is something in it for me, spending time with someone I like.

Them picking up my DC from school and spending an hour playing at the park, brilliant.

Them including my Dc by taking them out on excursions, even if just a picnic at the park, again, it's some form of reciprocity.

Even then just buying me a cup of tea when we collect our DC from an activity as a thank you goes a hell of a long way!

If they have an issue then I would hope they could share it with me so that I could be understanding, but if they don't share how do I know if there is an issue or whether they just can't be arsed?

My life is hard enough that I don't have the bandwidth to carry the responsibility for others.

Yep, I agree with you. I get it that people have OCD, anxiety etc (I too suffer from depression and anxiety) and I get that if you have a small messy house (mine is a v small messy flat) and I get it if you don't have the bandwidth (neither do I; I am working several jobs) but, after a while, I do gravitate towards those who are socially easy & prepared to engage in ordinary give and take. Because I don't have the bandwidth. I think sometimes those who are very private/neurotic about their space don't really understand that it is a strain for those of us who are less private/more sociable. I respect people's privacy and don't pry but I do sometimes wonder with extremely private people, what is so special about them and their secrets, why not just let it all hang out? It is hard to really get to know someone or bond with someone if they are extremely private; you just feel ultimately there is a barrier and you are only going to get so far with that person. I am essentially an introvert with v sociable moments, but I do get fed up with people not being socially normal. I get it if someone is neurodivergent but this mother is not neurodivergent. I just have to mitigate things as best I can so as not to feel I am being taken for granted and that is what I have done; we tend to meet up outside and I have stopped having her kids round because they do create havoc and take ages to go home. Essentially my weekends for ages have been taken up with always meeting up with this mum because my daughter loves her kids so much. I have branched out as much as I can but my daughter is pretty intensely into these kids. I like the mum but there will always be this barrier that will stop our friendship going really deep. It interesting to read other peoples' thoughts on this. I may have to delete this thread though for fear of her recognising herself. Not sure she goes on Mumsnet but who knows?

OP posts:
Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 15:53

Thatsridiculous · 13/06/2023 07:15

My perspective - I don’t quite understand the constant need to socialise out of school. It’s nice sometimes, but not as a regular thing.

When my daughter was younger she was frequently invited to another friends home. The mum worked part time and was always home for school pick up. I work full time and was not back in time for school pick up - we had a childminder.

I know she was resentful that I didn’t reciprocate because she moaned about it to other mums - I’m not saying I didn’t ever, we had her child over plenty of times over the years, but I couldn’t do it regularly and tbh, I found the constant offers to have DD round to play quite intense. It was constant - something every week. And always mentioned in front of DD and she of course always wanted to go.

That’s just not for me. When I come home from work I don’t want to be hosting other peoples children. Maybe I should have said no to DD going round to hers more often but I felt quite pressured and DD of course was desperate to go. Had the mum not suggested a play date it wouldn’t have happened as regularly and I was fine with that. They saw each other in school every day and at clubs anyway.

Yeah, take your point. My daughter is an only child and very sociable. I have to dampen it down and force her to be alone sometimes, as it is important to be able to be alone, but if you have a very social only child, it is pretty knackering.

OP posts:
Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 15:58

Kanaloa · 12/06/2023 21:31

I think you are unreasonable. If you don’t like her and don’t want her to come then of course don’t invite her. But don’t do it because she’s ‘unfair’ for not inviting you back. There’s a thousand reasons someone may not be able to host. I would continue to invite (I did with some of my kids’ friends) because of the possibility that this is a bad home situation. The only thing worse than being a kid growing up in a chaotic home is being excluded from society because of the chaotic home situation.

I do invite her kids over for the sake of my kid, and because I am nice. There are two of them, they create havoc. They are twins, they come as a pair. I have suggested just dropping off one of them but that I have been told that the other twin will be v upset if I don't invite them both. I don't always want to have to meet up outside. They are not excluded from society. They are middle class kids with a mum who is earning decent money.

OP posts:
Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 16:00

Mary0nTheHandlebars · 12/06/2023 22:21

I only have one mum friend where I live but I'm sure she wonders this too. Our daughters are good friends.

In my case I don't reciprocate because because my DS has severe autism and his needs would completely dominate the play date. He's very loud, boisterous and very territorial of "his" things. His meltdowns can be upsetting and would be hovering around them the entire time trying to prevent one. It wouldn't be fun for anybody.

DD's play dates with her friend at the park and at her friends house / the hobbies they do together is the only time she gets to just be her iykwim? She misses out on alot, being the Sibling of a significantly disabled child and really benefits from the odd day out without DS.

I've also got some very unpleasant neighbours who object to any and all children's noise, so there's also that.

Take your point but neither of her kids have autism. There may be an issue with the neighbours tho, not liking noise.

OP posts:
Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 16:02

Morphmorph · 12/06/2023 22:29

But it's not her sole responsibility to do this for you. She's not obligated to have you over and you're not obligated either.

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I don't want to be invited over. It would just be nice if sometimes my kid is invited over, given I have had her two kids over a lot. I know it is not her responsibility or obligation but, you know, it's would be just generous and hospitable. But, I have given up and accepted that she doesn't want to.

OP posts:
Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 16:04

MojoMoon · 12/06/2023 20:39

Why has the lack of reciprocation got you down?

Do you resent the cleaning up, cost of tea and biscuits etc in hosting?

Your kids must nearly be at the age when they don't need a parent on a playdate with a well known friend.
If you resent hosting this mum, you can just move to parent free play dates

Maybe she hates her home, is really self conscious about it. Maybe you've got nice toys and teas.

Yes, I am happy to have parent free play dates. The point is that she won't have my daughter round at all for some reason that I don't know - messy small flat, no bandwidth, neighbours don't like noise, who knows - and I have her kids round. It is tiring for me. And I get fed up of it. My flat is small and messy, I have little bandwidth either. But my daughter loves her kids so I do it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 16:11

Ontheperiphery79 · 12/06/2023 23:36

You said you don't understand it, but then have explored it might be down to the fact that she's a single parent with quite full on sounding twins and a full on sounding job. You've also mentioned that she's a private person, who may not have the headspace to host.
So, I can only speak from my experience, but as a single parent to full on (and ND) 5 year old twins, a pretty run down flat in a pretty run down area, my home be shabby, but it's my safe space that I can retreat to from the world. The only place.
I don't host play dates ever. Never have and never will. I also don't regularly share exactly why I don't 'do' them. But, it's my personal boundary across the board and, actually, it's perfectly fine that I don't feel the need to explain this to anyone.
Good on your friend for maintaining her own boundaries.

Yeah, take all your points but sometimes when people maintain their boundaries so very firmly it can come across as basically somewhat uptight/ungenerous/tiresome/neurotic. Sorry if that sounds mean but I don't quite know how else to put it. I also have only so much bandwidth, am skint, busy, stressed out, suffer anxiety, small flat etc etc, and yet I attempt to be a generous hospitable person because I know it's good for my kid. But I have set my boundaries in that I have her kids round much less, despite my daughter's constant moaning about it, as she loves them. And I am trying to expand her friendship group beyond these twins.

OP posts:
Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 16:13

OrderOfTheKookaburra · 13/06/2023 00:40

Sadly though her attitude will have an effect on her DC because people DO expect some reciprocity! As you say, it's tiring and also can financially affect you being the one hosting all the time.

You could try asking in advance if she could have your DD over for the day as you and your DH are going somewhere. See what happens? If it's because the house is a mess that will give her time to sort it. If she says a straight out no then sadly I would have to rethink it, myself.

And I say that as someone who struggles with getting my crap sorted but would always have a tidying blitz to enable DC's friends to come over.

Yep, I have attempted this and it has been a flat no. So I have had a rethink.

OP posts:
Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 16:17

CurlewKate · 13/06/2023 07:16

I always did the "hosting"- although that does seem a bizarre word for cooking an extra handful of pasta. I had no anxiety or other MH issues, I was a SAHM, I had plenty of outdoor space, a super child friendly dog, children who loved to have other children in their space, a partner who enjoyed having people round. Why would I mind? Emergency child care is an entirely different matter, and there were parents I knew I could ring if I needed to. Having play dates is not building up credit for free childcare. It's letting your child have a nice time with a friend. And not having to entertain them yourself after school!

I am not a SAHM, I have no garden, v small flat etc etc. I do host a lot because it is easier with an only child to have another kid around to play with so I dont have to entertain her, but I guess I am worn out with having to host a pair of twins who cause havoc in my already messy flat when the favour is never returned. We now meet up outside as I have decided to instil some boundaries for myself as I am fed up of the one way traffic but sometimes I just do not want to meet up outside.

OP posts:
CurlewKate · 13/06/2023 16:22

@Voodoo43 But surely the issue is not that you're "hosting" but that the children are wreaking havoc! I wouldn't have allowed that to happen. Or maybe I would have let it pass once, but not twice. If you don't feel up to disciplining them, then don't have them over again. Because they're brats-not because their mother doesn't reciprocate.

Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 16:25

SunnySaturdayMorning · 13/06/2023 11:30

You don’t need to “get to the bottom of it”. It’s really none of your business.

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Er...thanks for your charming way with words. No, I realise it is not my business, and obviously I would not pry but, you know, you can't help wondering what on earth is going on. Like it is normal human curiosity.

OP posts:
Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 16:26

CurlewKate · 13/06/2023 16:22

@Voodoo43 But surely the issue is not that you're "hosting" but that the children are wreaking havoc! I wouldn't have allowed that to happen. Or maybe I would have let it pass once, but not twice. If you don't feel up to disciplining them, then don't have them over again. Because they're brats-not because their mother doesn't reciprocate.

They're ok kids, but just hard to control & there are two of them, they are twins. Yeah, I have stopped having them round cos I can't cope! But my daughter moans on and on about wanting to see them.

OP posts:
Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 16:28

LlynTegid · 13/06/2023 07:19

Her choice, if it is just messy then fair enough. I'd only be concerned if it is a result of coercive control from a DH/DP or to hide something illegal such as drugs.

No, there is no partner in the picture. And I highly doubt it is illegal activity. She has a v good corporate job. She is a very respectable seeming person. I think it is just her place is messy, small, she is knackered and can't face it. But neither can I. So am putting my foot down and not having her kids round, despite my daughter's endless moaning. I am giving myself a break.

OP posts:
drpet49 · 13/06/2023 16:30

Completely agree with this.

Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 16:33

letsgojo · 13/06/2023 07:20

I have crippling ocd and I can't have people here. Our besties we've been to hundreds of times over 5 years and they've been here twice. I explained when I first met her and she said she really doesn't mind hosting, but sometimes we meet out and I'll buy or bring take away coffees and snacks so that's me kinda reciprocating the tea and biscuits if that makes sense.
If you like her and she's a good friend please just accept the fact you don't go to hers. If you find it too much hosting then meet out.
She's probably extremely grateful for a friend like you xx

She does reciprocate in that she is generous about buying snacks etc when we are out. I don't think she has OCD, think it is just she is single mum of twins and knackered and has a small flat (as do I). I do like her, but she has never explained what the issue is, I am too polite to ask, and I just try and enjoy her company when we are out but have had to stop having her twins over all the time as they cause havoc and are hard to contorl and i can't cope and end up feeling resentful. I think if she explained that it was some mental health thing I would completely understand and respect that as I too suffer from anxiety and depression. We have known each other long enough that she could have told me. She knows all about my mental health probs. I am very open tho. She is not. It is hard when someone is so private. You feel that you will ultimately never be able to reach them and you do end up veering towards ppl who are more open.

OP posts:
Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 16:36

Anaemiafog · 13/06/2023 07:25

DD leaves school this week. She has a friend who we've known since nursery. She has come here, stayed over, been on expensive days out, never missed one of DD's events, etc. that we always paid for. DD has never once been invited there. She is DD friend and that's why we invite her.
The friend comes from a large complicated family with several step and half siblings. They don't have a lot of money. I realised ten years ago it wouldn't be a reciprocal arrangement, like with other friends. If I'd stopped it, the only ones losing out would have been this child and mine. She's a great kid and it's not her fault.

Yeah, understand this, but this is not the case with these twins. The mum has a v good corporate job (earns a lot more than me) and they are not like the family you talk about. They are not a chaotic family. Well, apart from the twins are pretty full on and hard to discipline because there's two of them.

OP posts:
Chamomileteaplease · 13/06/2023 16:45

I think @Voodoo43 you have been given a hard time because you didn't state clearly from the outset about you hosting these two children all the time and usually (?) without the mum?

I think people see it as different if the mum isn't there because after all who cares who provides the tea and biscuits? Especially if she bring biscuits sometimes.

Basically you are providing an awful lot of childcare and usually on MN people are extremely hot on that. Which is why I think it is the way you have said it.

I hope that before these wild kids go home that you get all three of them to tidy up? I used to find that that helped a lot.

Has the mother ever specifically said to you "thank you so much for doing all the hosting aka childcare for five years. It is really kind of you and I so appreciate it."??

CurlewKate · 13/06/2023 16:53

Honestly- I think a friend to tea and childcare are two completely different things! But I certainly didn't realise that the visiting children trashed the OP's house. As I said- I was always happy to have kids round and didn't expect reciprocation but it was always my house my rules.....

VikingLady · 13/06/2023 17:08

We don't have anyone over, ever. DD has ASD and home is her safe space; when we had people over when she was smaller she freaked out completely and it set her back months, in terms of mental health.

I am ALWAYS upfront about it though. If we're invited to someone's house for a play date I drop into that conversation that we can't reciprocate, so is there anything I can do to even the scales? Like what snacks should I bring? If it's repeated I'll bake a cake or something. It has to even put in some way.

(Plus I have high levels of social anxiety and used to throw up at the thought of people in my personal space, having to work out how to host, what to do, what to say, how much of what food to offer and when... )

SarahDippity · 13/06/2023 18:41

CurlewKate · 13/06/2023 10:07

@SarahDippity "I’ll never know why and I have no problem saying I think it was poor form on the parents’ part to not participate in the exchange of hospitality, even occasionally."

Have the posts on this thread not given you even a hint of a clue of why it might have been?

Yes, there are lots of possible reasons, I’m sure, but no point in me speculating. No reason was ever offered, and I never sought one.

On the face if it, this particular mum was a very engaged and amiable person, seemed to have a stable family life, lovely daughters who did the same activities as mine. She and her husband were always really thankful and chatty, but for reasons unknown were quite comfortable to never extend an invitation to my child over the ten years.

As I said above, no benefit to me speculating why, but I feel justified in thinking it was bad form on their part. Not keeping score 😬, but approx 50-0, seriously?!

SarahDippity · 13/06/2023 18:42

Chamomileteaplease · 13/06/2023 16:45

I think @Voodoo43 you have been given a hard time because you didn't state clearly from the outset about you hosting these two children all the time and usually (?) without the mum?

I think people see it as different if the mum isn't there because after all who cares who provides the tea and biscuits? Especially if she bring biscuits sometimes.

Basically you are providing an awful lot of childcare and usually on MN people are extremely hot on that. Which is why I think it is the way you have said it.

I hope that before these wild kids go home that you get all three of them to tidy up? I used to find that that helped a lot.

Has the mother ever specifically said to you "thank you so much for doing all the hosting aka childcare for five years. It is really kind of you and I so appreciate it."??

But didn’t @Voodoo43 mention a nanny in one post?

Mary46 · 13/06/2023 19:00

Its tiring with twins. Op I think do a playcentre or park. Used find it stressful the kid would ask in front of the mam could they come ours!! But yes we both kept it fair/returned the favours. Maybe some mams dont get into it

Cam22 · 13/06/2023 19:03

Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 16:25

Er...thanks for your charming way with words. No, I realise it is not my business, and obviously I would not pry but, you know, you can't help wondering what on earth is going on. Like it is normal human curiosity.

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Completely understandable. You’re having to labour your point for some posters who must surely get it - as we all do.

It sounds a pain, tbh, so no wonder you feel aggrieved. It’s a perfectly normal reaction.

Original poster
Voodoo43 · 13/06/2023 19:43

I don’t have a nanny. She has an occasional nanny. Like two afternoons a week.

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Leftlegwest · 13/06/2023 19:50

I hate having people to ours. I feel ashamed of our perfectly standard three bed new build semi. A lot of the parents at our school live in very big houses. The last one I was at they had four reception rooms! I know it's my problem, not there's but I can't help but feeling judged. It could be something like that.