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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask if you support Trump or Boris Johnson, to explain why?

297 replies

ChittyBangabang · 11/06/2023 14:14

I don't get it. Both are charlatans but seem to have a core fan base.

If you're one, can you say why and do you believe they tell the truth?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Marchintospring · 15/07/2023 00:18

I liked Boris before he was PM. Went off him when he bottled being PM after the Brexit vote. Thought he was good as PM. He got stuff done despite it being incredibly difficult times both in terms of world events and personally for him. Didn’t flinch. You get what you see, doesn’t pretend to be “a man of the people” just to garner support.

Trump I guess was similar although I don’t think he’s a nice person so I wouldn’t stick up for him.

BarelyLiterate · 15/07/2023 00:22

I’m not American, and I wouldn’t vote for Trump if I was, but his success wasn’t an accident and there are two big things he was right about :

1, China. Now, in 2023, everyone realises that democratic countries have become far too economically dependent on China. We now understand that the Chinese have systematically ripped off our technologies and that we were naive to think that China would ever become democratic like us. But Trump was the first political leader to point this out, and his analysis has been vindicated.

2, American corporations outsourcing unionised American manufacturing jobs to developing countries, with catastrophic economic effects on the so-called ‘rust belt’ states. Voters in those states were willing to vote for Trump because he promised to defend them, while liberal elites sneered at them or ignored them.

blameless · 15/07/2023 00:29

Not that I would like to vote for either, but their obvious attraction is that they are not 'typical' politicians.
The poorest in the US were better off under Trump and until Johnson recognised his 'Churchill' opportunity when our cost of living crisis arrived following his unlimited, open-ended support for Ukraine, many people seemed content with their lot.
They are both good delegators and never get their hands dirty. Interestingly, the black butler at the White House apparently preferred working for Trump (who has always had staff) than the Obamas who were uncomfortable around servants.
I would welcome any concrete information as to who is currently pulling the strings for the UK and US governments - it doesn't appear to be either of the incumbents.

jgw1 · 15/07/2023 00:29

Clavinova · 14/07/2023 23:57

jgw1
insisted his ministers went out and lied about it

That's speculation.

You think that Ministers volunteered to go out and lie about Pincher's behaviour.

Ok.

jgw1 · 15/07/2023 00:31

pleasedontoutmeguys · 15/07/2023 00:11

From what I understood at the time, we had just had years of Obama and Cameron who, although different, were career politicians, very smooth and diplomatic in what they said. I think Trump and Boris couldn't have been further than that. They engaged the 'tell it like it is' people who also respect Clarkson, Katie Hopkins and Piers Morgan. People that spout views so odious that people assume they cannot be liars. People were wrong.
I, as a South American, could not understand why Trumps overt racism wasn't more of an issue in the UK. He said that if someone like my son came into their country then he would likely be a drug dealer or criminal. I can only imagine it is because British people don't know enough Latino people to have been outraged.

Many of us were outraged.

jgw1 · 15/07/2023 00:31

Any chance you could tell us what he got done?
Or was it just general everyday stuff like breaking the law and lying about it?

Rudderneck · 15/07/2023 02:18

I think Trump support is far more complicated than many people realize, especially because the media has often been quite dishonest or disingenuous in reporting about him.

There are many people who voted for Trump without necessarily liking him as a person. I would say there is a kind of divide between people who vote based on a fairly pragmatic assessment of what kinds of policies they see a person representing, and people who see a vote as a more personal kind of approval.

And support for someone like that is linked closely with whatever the other candidates are seen as representing.

The number one reason people I know supported him was they saw his economics as solid, Michael Moor predicted his win, pointing out that he was the first political figure to come to the mid-western steel towns and say he would do something to keep good jobs there.

And it's also worth remembering that he increased his vote among non-white voters in his second election.

OCaptain · 15/07/2023 02:44

@Glowie

Steps toward peace: Relations with NK and Saudis were improved under Trump, and he got Russia to stop invading Ukraine for 4 years.

North Korea: he only elevated the position of KJU to his own people by having an American President openly coo over him and bend to his demands. He never stopped firing missiles and relations between the US/North Korea/South Korea did not improve by any measure.

Saudis: Vast amounts of money - oil and blood money - were involved here. You can expect a good deal went into Trump's coffers and those of Kushner. If you think relations improved, ask yourself how.

Russia/Ukraine: Please look this up. This is laughable. Apart from Russia and Ukraine having such an extensive history, do you not remember the reason Trump was impeached? Remember an incident with Ukraine's US ambassador to Ukraine? The idea that Trump held off a Russia/Ukraine war, or could stop it now within days, should be put to bed now.

SingingNettles · 15/07/2023 03:27

Glowie · 14/07/2023 22:53

You've been misled. Jan 6th was barely more than a collection of idiots wandering around the capitol building.

For one, he had absolutely nothing to do with it. In fact, he's on video telling his people to go home peacefully.

For another, many of them were actually let into the building by police (who even posed for selfies).

Do you know that not a single one of them had a gun? Very difficult to seriously try to overthrow a government without guns...

The only person killed was a lady who was shot by a secret service agent while looking through a window.

I would like to know your thoughts on the events of 29/05/19 at the white house, and where you'd put it on the terrorism scale.

Show quote history

I’m sorry but that ‘no guns’ claim doesn’t stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny so I have a hard time anyone advancing it is even attempting to be honest.

Nat6999 · 15/07/2023 03:34

Clavinova · 14/07/2023 23:46

Nat6999
I'm staunch Labour

Do you read the Daily Mirror?

No I don't, I read the odd article in The Guardian & sport wherever I can get it but I don't read any newspapers regularly, I prefer to read stuff through Social Media & listen to podcasts like The Rest is Politics.

OCaptain · 15/07/2023 04:54

@Glowie

Do you know that not a single one of them had a gun? Very difficult to seriously try to overthrow a government without guns...

Do you know that a good number of rioters were charged and pleaded guilty in federal court for carrying guns and ammunition onto Capitol grounds? The claim you've made above is a verbatim Tucker Carlson lie.

gillefc82 · 15/07/2023 05:00

Not a supporter of either Boris or Trump. I don’t think they have charisma, but I think they do both have personality. In my view, pretty objectionable, but I suppose in a sea of rather grey, bland, forgettable and almost cookie-cutter politicians, I can see why that might appeal to some voters.

The last politician I actually liked, based on what I’ve seen in speeches, interactions with press and people and particularly the videos from the White House Correspondents Dinners over the years of his tenure, is Obama.

jgw1 · 15/07/2023 06:55

Glowie · 14/07/2023 23:28

Zero Russian invasions while he was president.

The same cannot be said for Obama or Biden.

Show quote history

I guess you are unaware of the Russian intervention in the Central African Republic?

jgw1 · 15/07/2023 06:58

Glowie · 14/07/2023 23:14

Citation needed. You have no idea what he campaigns on.

They wanted:
A big beautiful wall - partially achieved
Lower taxes - achieved
Cheaper insulin - achieved
Energy independence - achieved
Lower prices - achieved
American jobs - achieved
No new wars - achieved
Steps toward peace with hostile nations - achieved

I'm sure there's more but all I can quickly think of off-hand.

This is what his voters want, so I have to ask what your problem is with the above?

Show quote history

On the subject of lower taxes in the US.

One of the results of Donald Trumps policies is that the richest 400 people in the US pay a lower rate of tax than the poorest 50%.

Was it the tax cuts to those 400 people you were refering to?

CurlewKate · 15/07/2023 07:00

@Marchintospring " I liked Boris before he was PM."

What, when he was cheating on various wives, including the one with cancer, and writing articles about "picanninies with watermelon smiles"?

jgw1 · 15/07/2023 07:04

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StefanosHill · 15/07/2023 07:24

I’m not sure many people who vote Republican are posting on this thread but since I hadn’t heard much lately I googled on support for Trump

He seems to be leading on DeSantis a fair bit now, so he may well be in the running.

Whether he’ll win against Biden is another question. Trump does have a strong support base but I guess we’ll see fairly soon how much

Glowie · 15/07/2023 07:25

OCaptain · 15/07/2023 04:54

@Glowie

Do you know that not a single one of them had a gun? Very difficult to seriously try to overthrow a government without guns...

Do you know that a good number of rioters were charged and pleaded guilty in federal court for carrying guns and ammunition onto Capitol grounds? The claim you've made above is a verbatim Tucker Carlson lie.

I thought it was obvious that I was referring to the people who actually entered the building...

User135644 · 15/07/2023 07:31

Nagado · 11/06/2023 14:31

I’m not a particular fan of either of them , but I can see why people like them. They can both be charismatic and appeal to a lot of people’s core values. They’re better at pretending they have a connection with your average, everyday person.

I’m not necessarily sure that people like them because they think they’re telling the truth. You know where you are with Boris. You know that he’s going to lie, cheat and weasel his way out of the promises he’s made. You don’t expect anything else. With the others, you suspect they’re doing exactly the same as Boris but are just better at hiding it, so you’re not quite sure to believe them or not.

But they literally have no values.

Their just wind up merchants and appeal to people because of it. Boris Johnson is just an act, the reality is he's a really horrible person.

Marchintospring · 15/07/2023 07:31

@CurlewKate @jgw1 Yes. Have you read the articles those quotes are taken from? Both were anti the epidemic racism of the establishment.

He used the term picannies precisely to highlight the imperialist/ racism of the Royal visit to her Africans subjects. The watermelon smiles was about Blair’s white saviour complex “watermelon smiles’ for ‘the big white chief’ in his ‘big white airplane”
He was defending the right for women to wear whatever they want including the niqabs regardless of how offensive others find it.

User135644 · 15/07/2023 07:33

cantab94 · 11/06/2023 14:58

I don't support trump or boris (I think all politicians are extremely poor atm and would not vote for any main parties) but after covid and brexit am extremely sceptical about the msm and question their conflicts of interest etc. Therefore when the msm were so hysterical about them both this made me more sympathetic and wonder why they didn't deal with them in a more rational manner. I personally don't think they lie anymore than most other politicians, just don't bother to cover it up.

Boris caused Brexit to happen (in 2016 and then the terrible deal we got) and was literally in charge through Covid. and was a disaster.

Piggywaspushed · 15/07/2023 07:33

Hillsborough? Liverpool? Ken Bigley?

Piggywaspushed · 15/07/2023 07:37

I think lots of voters didn't know much of Johnson's journalism, or his affairs before voting him in. They pictured him hanging from that wire in 20102 and knew he had been mayor- whether he was any good was irrelevant. The English seem oddly drawn to upper class buffoons.

Trump, on the other hand, did well by downplaying his inherited riches and doing his man of the people shtick.

Both changed their views to mould with the people they were courting. Trump on abortion, for example.

Are you actually American glowie?

Glowie · 15/07/2023 07:38

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LoonyLois · 15/07/2023 07:45

Trump is passionate about his country, you can’t deny that. Between him and Hilary Clinton I’d have voted Trump and I didn’t think I would ever say that.

Johnson I would never have voted for but I do feel sorry for him the way he’s been treated. The way he rolled out the vaccine programme was amazing. Plus with some of his Covid decisions he was damned if he did and damned if he didn’t. No one knew what was going to happen with Covid, and he was already sorting out Cameron and May’s Brexit cock ups