To ask if you support Trump or Boris Johnson, to explain why?

[ChittyBangabang]

I don't get it. Both are charlatans but seem to have a core fan base.

If you're one, can you say why and do you believe they tell the truth?

@Clavinova do you also think that Johnson is too stupid to know that appointing a known sex pest to a position of authority is a bad idea?

jgw1
is this another example of where lying is acceptable to you?

That wasn't the point I was making.

But it would be a good example of where you find lying acceptable @Clavinova

Only if your in the intelligence services can you truly know if what they say and do, is true.
That said I presume they have other non official actors that they are accountable to.

jgw1

'Bring back Boris!' Theresa May should pay for the groping Deputy Chief Whip scandal not Johnson... says ALEX STORY, the victim who helped expose it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11044363/Bring-Boris-Theresa-pay-Chris-Pincher-scandal-says-victim-groping-MP.html

For context

"What are examples of non official actors?

For example, among NSAs are non-profit organizations, labor unions, non-governmental organizations, banks, corporations, media organizations, business magnates, people's liberation movements, lobby groups, religious groups, aid agencies, and non-state actors such as paramilitary forces."

Janiie
Yep Forensic Starmer can't even count. Or if he can he just has a very poor memory, or he is in fact a big fat liar liar with his pants on fire. I think it's the latter.

Love it.

Plus can we truly say they lie, because usually it's down to interpretation, if I specifically say the weather is wet today and someone quotes me as saying I said its raining then I can say I didn't say those specific words etc.

On repeat

Durham police investigated, and found no laws broken.

A subsequent review of that investigation found: no laws broken.

Legal experts reviewed that review: no laws broken.

4 independent legal opinions were sought: no laws broken.

7 legal inquiries, and each of them found no laws had been broken.

R.e. the non-white vote, non-white people aren't a homogenous group and terms like BAME (UK umbrella term to cover basically everyone not white) are very damaging. Having said that, non-white people can often expect to find greater hostility from other non-white people than white people in the most general sense. There's a reason why the current crop in cabinet would win all manner of DEI awards yet also happens to be the most virulently right-wing. There's a lesson in there somewhere about an incredibly pervasive global force but perhaps that's for another thread.

I'm sorry, but our so-called Conservative Party hasn't been right wing in years, and certainly not 'virulently' right wing.

If they were, they wouldn't be so certain of annihilation at the next GE...

My take on the two main characters here:

Boris should be up against the wall with he rest of them. I've never understood the appeal, even when he was popular.

Trump is by far the best of a bad bunch, and by a country mile the best president the US has had for years.

DuncinToffee
Durham police investigated, and found no laws broken

Why did you make such a fuss when Durham police failed to fine Dominic Cummings then?

And I can quite clearly see a Durham Constabulary police officer in the video in this link - with Labour's North Durham MP and a Labour Mayor - both breaking Covid laws at a party on May 10 2020. They didn't receive fines either;

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18484861.mp-kevan-jones-defends-decision-attend-100th-birthday-party-lockdown/

Have you read the entire link??

Astonishing.

Which bit?

The last bit, plainly.

This is the best summary on this thread.

The core base for both Trump and Johnson are people who are embittered and disenfranchised and who have completely lost faith in the political system. Spite and puerile tribalism is their currency and they see in Trump and Johnson two grown up version of the sorts of boys they sucked up to at school in order to avoid getting bullied.

Layer on a lot of spin about standing up to "elites" (as if these people weren't about as elite as you can get) and add the echo chamber of social media and light blue touchpaper.

I don't find it particularly surprising that poor, uneducated and embittered people in the US Rust Belt whose families haven't worked for generations or in the British Red Wall constituencies might look up to two grown-up bully-boys.

What does surprise me is that the Republican Party and the Conservative Party respectively (neither of which are short of clever, self-interested and ambitious people) are still protecting and supporting these thugs.

Johnson broke the law and lied to Parliament

And I accepted Durham Police's decision and haven't brought it up on every Johnson thread to defend him.

Not plain at all I'm afraid.

What did he do as President that was so bad?

I think the situation with Trump is different.

Fox News, easily the most popular news source in America, is very happy to air pro-Trump lies (even when their presenters actually hate Trump and don’t personally believe any of the lies they are peddling on his behalf).

And I don’t mean partisan spin, I do mean out and out lies, that they are aware are lies (for example, the matters relating to the Dominion lawsuit, that fox settled for $750,000,000).

It has led to the brainwashing of about 25-30% of the country, for the main purpose of enriching Fox and its allies.

Most Republican politicians that have stood up to him, and tried to be open and honest with voters, have been hounded out by Trump and his media allies.

I do often feel angry at Trump supporters but, in a way, a lot of them are actually victims, being fed lies in order to have them vote against their own interests.

Piggywaspushed
Have you read the entire link??

More or less - happy for you to point out any mistakes I've made but your cryptic posts are not cutting through.

For me, the worst thing he did was at the end of his presidency - inspiring something akin to a terrorist attack against the US government, based on the plain and obvious lie that he actually won the election.

In essence, he tried to overthrow democracy, through violence. It led to deaths and injuries, and some of his own supporters being jailed for years.

I think we came within a whisker of elected officials being attacked or killed as a result of Trump’s actions.

Evil and treacherous in the extreme.

@Clavinova are you suggesting that breaking the law is bad?

A stunning lack of self-awareness here.

For that to be your honest view of people voting the other way while bleating about their 'tribalism'.. Good god.

The uneducated plebs should learn their place and vote for the one you like, am I right comrade?