Shark Attack

[JayAlfredPrufrock]

Nice to see that the shark that killed a swimmer in Egypt was caught and beaten to death on the beach.

<Slow handclap>

According to some the “smart” thing to do would be to let a shark that is not acting normal for its species (it is being sent to a lab for autopsy) to just let it keep on attacking and eating humans. Real smart there. Big thumbs up for empathy and caring for humans instead of a fish.

You clearly haven’t seen the video then - he did know he was being stalked, and definitely did feel something for quite a long time. He was crying out for his papa. It was horrific.

No. I'm not proposing that at all.
However, if you invade an animal or mammals space then you can't complain if they attack you.
To kill an animal / mammal, particularly in such a horrible way just because you think you have more right to exist than they do is wrong on so many levels.
They have as much right to exist as we do.

There’s no point anyone pretending this was a considered decision based on a rational assessment of scientific fact. It was just a mob.

What gives humans the right to invade their territory?
What gives humans the right to slaughter animals for their territory?
If you actively choose to go into an area, be it land or sea and you know that there is a potential to be attacked by that animal or mammals then that's the risk that you take.
Yet somehow people seem to think that it's perfectly acceptable to slaughter an animal / mammal in the most sickening way to get what they want.
What makes you personally think that you have more right to exist than an animal / mammal?

According to some the “smart” thing to do would be to let a shark that is not acting normal for its species (it is being sent to a lab for autopsy) to just let it keep on attacking and eating humans. Real smart there. Big thumbs up for empathy and caring for humans instead of a fish.

What do you mean by not acting normal? There seems to be conflicting evidence on whether sharks should be killed after hunting humans.

Some people say there's a taste for blood and they return to the same hunting ground. Cold be true but then other people say it's not true.

The argument that humans aren't their normal prey... well, probably because we don't live in the sea and most beach-goers are just paddling in the shallow bits. I don't see why we wouldn't be prey to them? We're mammals like seals, there's nothing abnormal about a shark trying to eat a mammal.

And the sarcastic empathy for a fish comment. Yes, people have empathy for animals as they should do. That's part of being a well rounded and compassionate person. That might also extend to killing a shark that poses a danger to protect the lives of people, they're or mutually exclusive. But that's assuming it's the same shark that was killed.

It's not that people hate humans if they care about animals too.

They don't know what death is. They don't want fear, pain and suffering and that's what a human death is supposed to eliminate. Whether or not it happens is another question.

I don't see how anyone can complain about fishing being bad (most likely to just win the argument, not of actual concern) and then say a shark being impaled by a mob is fine.

Neither is good. Though to be fair, the people on the beach aren't experts, they probably did just do what they thought was best.

I love sharks, have been absolutely fascinated by them since I was a kid and have absorbed any and all information I can find about them in that time. They are killing and eating machines (tiger sharks in particular are very aggressive) although we’re not natural prey for them because we’re too skinny. A hungry shark, however, will eat just about anything. That might be a human if there’s one available, plus we do that splashing thing that they like so much, especially once they’ve bitten us once and realised we are not a fat, juicy seal, but by then the damage is already done. The shark might swim away and the person might be lucky enough to survive the bite or they might stay to finish the job, depending on how hungry they are.

News articles like to use emotive words like ‘monster’ quite frequently but it’s just a shark doing what sharks do (people on here have said it’s not normal behaviour for a shark, and they are correct in that sharks do not usually go for humans, but shark attacks on humans are almost always a case of mistaken identity at first bite!) There’s no malice involved on the shark’s part as that’s a human emotion that can’t be applied to sharks.

I’ve seen a lot of comments here to the tune of “he knew there were sharks so he shouldn’t have gone in, ergo he deserved it”, which I don’t think is right, nobody deserves to die in that way, not even as a result of their own ignorance. However, the shark didn’t deserve to be lashed to a boat to be dragged on land and beaten to death either.

If the authorities decided the shark had to be dispatched to protect other swimmers then I understand why, but beating it like that was cruel; there are many other ways to kill a shark that don’t involve torturing it with an iron bar. Gunshot (if you’ve got a gun handy) or a knife to the brain (probably readily available on a fishing vessel) will do the job quickly. Humans are capable of cruelty whereas sharks are not. There are no winners in this story and the onus is now on the Egyptian government to take measures to stop attracting sharks to the shoreline, starting with banning chumming the fucking water.

I don't see how anyone can complain about fishing being bad (most likely to just win the argument, not of actual concern) and then say a shark being impaled by a mob is fine*

No, I'm afraid my morals are consistent as I'm a vegan.

People exploiting animals brought this mess. I don't believe in killing animals unnecessarily.

Overfishing would have made food more scarce for this apex predator.
Chumming would have drawn it in.
These are things enabled by the blind shutting your eyes of people acting superior as tucking into cod and chips. Shark attacks used to be incredibly rare but the drip down attitude of animals are ours to use caused this. I'm just pointing out that your way of living caused this, and you can't wag your finger at locals and a bereaved father acting exactly the way you do just because you pay some poorer bugger to carry out your dirty work on less exotic animals.

I mean, yeah I am no fan of leaving animals to suffocate or be bludgeoned to death, but you can't complain about it whilst your chip supper literally suffered a similar fate.

And I'm this case, your (you human beings) actions led to this killing of an animal being necessary. That's your lookout, so I'm just asking you to address your hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance because the earth can't support your habit. Not to mention healthcare etc.

But I knew I'd meet resistance on this thread because people don't like their hypocrisy pointing out.
But my position is entirely consistent. It's you who is picking and choosing for posturing.

@WetBandits best post of the thread by a long way.

This.

If you deliberately attract predators to an area by providing easy prey, then you are asking for trouble.

That's why there are signs all over North America and Canada saying "DON'T FEED THE BEARS" (and we on the coast of the North East have signs saying "Do't feed the seagulls').

Feeding doesn't only attract the predators to the area, but it accustoms them to seeing humans as a food source. They become bold (NOT tame!0 and lose their natural instinct to avoid humans. (Very few wild animals deliberately target humans if they have another food source, and that includes most species of shark.)

When human beings both destroy an animal's natural food source, and then provide it with an alternative which leaves ourselves open to being predated, we can hardly complain when a wild animal takes advantage of it.

Sharks are repulsive to most of us (as are alligators and crocodiles) but they are hugely important in the marine ecosystem , and they are rapidly nearing extinction - and it is due to us. We have destroyed their food sources, polluted their waters, and hunted them for sport and occasionally for food, as in the Chinese shark's fin market which is one of the cruellest trades you can imagine, and heaven knows there's a lot of competition for a cruelty award when it comes to the way people treat animals!

If we continue as we are, an animal which is so perfectly adapted to its environment that is has remained essentially unchanged for many millions of years will be gone within the lifetime of our children.

That's nothing to be proud of.

I expect if it had been someone other than a Russian man some would feel differently about it let's be honest.

What a stupid comment.

Musing on a tangent here, but I’m also very interested to know (but not interested enough to e.g. look at user names to find out) whether this thread has attracted a very different subset of mumsnet users to the average. I tend to associate the general mood of mumsnet with a sort of diamond-hard, mean-spirited selfishness - why should you answer the door? Why should you watch people’s kids? Why should you give your friend a lift? Why should you feed your guests? Everyone is a cf! etc - and the position “it is very wicked to kill a dangerous predatory animal with a taste for human flesh” seems so diametrically opposed to that…! Fascinating. The anthropology of the internet never disappoints.

@baloosbaloos - 😂😂😂 Brilliant!

That is Nature's way and a false comparison.

a) both are competing for the same food source

b) sharks will take orca calves if they get the chance, so the orcas are protecting any young that they may have, now or future.

It's not a stupid comment, just have a look over social media for the stupidity and narrow mindedness of some.

Yes - there have always been sharks off the British coast especially around the Cornwall area. Mainly blues and makos, and non-bitey basking sharks - Looe has (or had - don't know if it still does) a thriving shark-fishing industry for sporting fishermen. They usually stay far offshore.

We are seeing more sharks though, and they are reaching more northern beaches more often, most probably due to global warming.

Well said.

Orcas are a whole different ball game! They are insanely intelligent and coordinated. They will kill a shark and effectively butcher it to eat the most nutritious part (liver usually) and then move on to the next. They bait their prey too.

If I’m ever eaten by a shark, it’ll probably be an accident. If I’m eaten by an orca, that will be premeditated murder 😂 they are amazing animals.

Agree with you @ToeJammed , and various other posters.

You can go in the sea. But you respect and you expect that other things live in there.

And you can eat meat and fish. Although I prefer not to, I don't object to us humans doing so. Our bodies are designed for it!

Yes you can maybe put down a man eating animal. Although that just goes back to the 'humans taking over every habitat' discussion.

I have just read an account of the humans' revenge on the shark and it is unpleasant reading.

(yes okay, it's The Sun but not many articles are coming up about it in my google search)
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22629530/shark-caught-clubbed-death-tourist-killed-red-sea/

There's no 'white saviour' flavour or racism to this as PPs have said. Yes there is animal cruelty closer to home, but we either don't realise to what extent it takes place, or we become desensitized to it. However we are seeing this situation with fresh eyes.

It's not a stupid comment, just have a look over social media for the stupidity and narrow mindedness of some.

There's all kinds of idiots and awful takes on twitter, and as this happened in Egypt, involving a Russian, it will a have reached lots of people. I've seen some of those posts and those people are just something else.

Mumsnet, though, is a very different audience to twitter. Doubt anyone is biased by nationality. Can't say I have any particular opinion of either Egyptians or Russians, and I bet most feel the same.

It's not as if if a group of British men beat a shark, there would be no anger. Or if a British man died, people would suddenly not care about the be shark because we have to be loyal to the Brit and be baying for the shark's blood.

Also a good post.

Human beings are (and always have been in one way or another) agents of our own destruction.

This planet was beautiful balanced until we stuck our oar in - destroying some animals and habitats for gin, over-breeding others (for gain), introducing species into an area they don't belong (for gain or amusement).

We are effing up Nature - we can't expect Nature not to fight back.

*for gain, not gin

destroying anything for gin can always be justified

We as a species are utterly abhorrent. Selfish, entitled and destroying the planet WE SHARE with all animals.

This shark was in its natural habitat. Our habitat is land ffs. If there are sharks in waters you’re swimming in, then you run the risk of being bitten / killed by one.

To retaliate against something that is completely natural to that species just because we can, as humans? Everything that’s wrong with ourselves as a species right there. We’ve been doing it for hundreds of years. Why stop now?

One day our species will pay - nature will find a way but more likely we will destroy ourselves first. When we’ve ruined everything else of course.

Yep.

I'm a Fat Lady, and I'm clearing my throat.

We are the most terrible creature ever unleashed.

This is what particularly saddens me.

Most of humanity deserves to do (there are still isolated pockets of indigenous people who live in harmony with the natural world about them), but we look likely to take every other life on the planet with us (with the possible exception of cockroaches)

I haven’t seen this story anywhere other than on this thread so I don’t know the details, and don’t want them in my head (still haunted by an extract from Jaws that I accidentally read as a child) but I can’t quite believe what I’m reading. The mind boggling inhumanity of reading about a shark actually eating someone in view of his family and your response is shock and outrage that the shark was killed?! I would bloody well hope the shark was killed! Yes, I meat, no I don’t have rose tinted views about where that meat comes from, yes I value human life over animal life and find it utterly terrifying and morally repugnant that some people claim not to. Of course I’m concerned about human impact on the natural world and we should be doing everything we can to preserve and protect it where possible, but I have absolutely no concerns about the rights or feelings of an individual fish which presents a real and immediate threat to people and I’m sickened by those claiming to.