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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think most men are degenerate if you dig down

363 replies

dontshootthefruit · 09/06/2023 17:16

That's it really. Could be pmt but...

I'm not sure MN helps change my mind, and yes, I know people don't post their happy stories.

My own experiences, that of most of my friends, the women on here. It's endless. I know there are some guys that are nicer than others. I know some that I consider good friends. I still wonder, deep deep down if they're all degenerate when it comes to sex.

Porn, prostitution, rough sex, casual assaults, etc. I listened to womens hour today discussing a new BBC doc about the widespread groping on the tube in Japan. What's most shocking to me is the fact they have sex clubs there that allow men to pay to replicate that kind of sexual assault (clubs decked out like train carriages full of prostitutes that appear to resist as part of the fun). Thing is, it's not a fringe activity, it's a "thing". I totally despair. I try to be positive, I have a partner, I have a daughter that's growing up fas, but push comes to shove... wouldn't trust one man that deeply when their sexuality calls.

Shoot me.😀

OP posts:
Original poster
dontshootthefruit · 10/06/2023 09:48

JMSA · 10/06/2023 05:57

My experience is that most men are
'disappointing' if you dig down.
Actually, there often isn't much digging required.

Disappointing on the surface. Yes.
Mostly degenerate if you (not you, any of us) could be bothered to ‘research’ any of them personally.

OP posts:
Freefall212 · 10/06/2023 09:50

There are similar boards online filled with men talking about how degenerate women are. The posters on those boards despite women, name call women, blame women for their problems and don't take accountablity for themselves at all as men. This board is filled with women who think men are degenerates and who despise men, name call men, blame men for all their problems, and don't take accountability at all for themselves as women.

This board and the anti-women boards post almost exactly the same sexist, hateful, rhetoric, just against the opposite sex. The arguments and language and posts are almost identical.

catslovelife · 10/06/2023 09:53

KateJohns · 10/06/2023 09:39

I believe men wear masks of decency around their partners and in society.
Rapists, abusers, violent incels etc. They don't walk around frothing at the mouth, they have friends, wives, sisters, aunts, mother's etc.

It's only when they think they'll get away with it does their real self appear.

Eg:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/wayne-couzens-colleagues-whatsapp-group-b2214744.html

How many of those cops and friends and wives etc that though they were wonderful?

Or how about the 'Bois Locker Room' teenage lads? How many of their mum's thought those lads were wonderful and kind?

Time and time again men hide their true nature to appear as something else.

Before anyone says #NAMALT really really think..

When have you heard or seen your wonderful husband / son / brother etc. Alone with other men?
And then think about the friends they keep..
Do they have that 1 friend who is a bit creepy?
Or has raped / abused / been violent to a woman / used prostitutes / addicted to porn / all his exes are psycho etc.
How wonderful can your man be if they have friends like that?

This with bells on!

I used to work in a clerical job in a workshop. Sometimes I would overhear conversations when they thought I /other women were not around.

Comments included:

'All women like being strangled'

'Does your girlfriend shave her bush'

'I saw some great pussy out on the weekend'

Etc etc

Original poster
dontshootthefruit · 10/06/2023 09:55

pinkginfizz9 · 10/06/2023 00:34

No most men are definitely not like that
.something about you must be attracting the losers!

Really.

I've worked in various professional and third sector areas. Know school dads, have known men through family and friends, same as most people. And have had quite differing types of lovers and partners met in varying situations.

I don't attract a certain type. Except men.

Who as I said are all degenerate deep down. Some wear a facade better than others.

Idiot.

OP posts:
Original poster
dontshootthefruit · 10/06/2023 10:01

JudgeRudy · 10/06/2023 00:05

I don't think most men are degenerate no, but I think most have those impulses. Partners/family help them to empathise and view women as people, but there's always 'the other' woman out there that they don't know. Presumably they're the ones they'd like to grope/assault etc. I think most wouldn't dream of treating women as objects because they know its wrong, but if there was some sort of apocalypse or New World Order where they had social permission to do 'bad things' lm pretty sure many would be impregnating 15 year olds.

Totally on the money. Yes.

I need someone to explain the documentary to me. And challenge my depressing thoughts about men. How can this be a thing - not picking on Japan as happens in all cultures but...

Thousands of gropers. Not a handful.
Footage uploaded of assault with many more thousands masturbating to it and paying for it.
Sex clubs in Tokyo where you pay to replicate assault on a mocked up train with prostitutes.

If this was the rabid fantasy of a couple of wrong uns that's bad enough. It's not. It's a thing.

Someone explain (and I know culture has an impact, what's normalised) how this is even human. To me is scream psychopathology. And it's men. Lots of them.

OP posts:
Mmhmmn · 10/06/2023 10:05

ThatFraggle · 09/06/2023 17:35

I wish every woman would just get the Female Dating Strategy Handbook at age 14 or so. FemaleDatingStrategy a dead Reddit subreddit, but the handbook is still linked

I second that!

Original poster
dontshootthefruit · 10/06/2023 10:06

CampCroc · 09/06/2023 22:55

The older I get the more I think YANBU.

As a young adult I worked in a male dominated environment - the casual sexism and banter was disgusting, yet I put up with it and didn’t particularly see it because I was “one of the lads”.

Over the last few years I’ve seen many men in my life shirk their responsibilities as fathers and husbands, letting their wives/girlfriends shoulder the bulk of responsibility, even the so called good ones. In fact I don’t think I can name one man who equally co-parents his own children. I know one who has his children every other week, but his new wife does the majority of parenting during those days.

I’ve seen men I thought were good men behave like animals when they think there’s no one around to see.

I’ve seen so called decent men defend predators/rapists and suggest that women falsely reporting rape (which rarely happens) is far worse that a woman being raped.

I’ve seen far too many headlines describing killers as “misunderstood family man”, “respected part of the community” when he’s killed his wife and children. On the rare occasion that a woman commits a crime no one is in any doubt as to how awful she is, and it’s treated as far more serious as a man committing the same crime - with longer sentencing iirc.

I have 2 young adult sons, despite being brought up by decent parents with firm boundaries, strong parental controls, open and honest discussions about sexism, porn and other issues, both have had times of thinking misogynistic jokes are hilarious, behaving badly with friends. I’m under no illusions that despite strong controls they have both seen porn, and the strong message that these women are people’s daughters, sisters, mothers etc is easily ignored. The older son is growing up, and I’ve noticed an improved attitude. Secondary school was difficult, lots of awful behaviour from so many boys, accepted by so many girls, and ignored by so many teachers. I’m not sure any teenager could go through an environment like that and come out unscathed, but it’s very much behaviour from boys directed at girls, which girls are conditioned to accept.

Until there are strong decent male role models teaching boys from a young age, across different scenarios, because tackling from home alone isn’t going to cut it, it needs to be across the board - school, sports groups (all ages), work, in the gym, in the pub - men need to stand up to banter, locker room talk, whatever you want to call it. At the moment this doesn’t happen, so women are hurt by this male behaviour - dehumanising us, minimising our roles in society, but then women are hurt by other women shutting down this sort of discussion.

I think many mothers here are naive as to the power and influence the internet and friends have in the teenage years, and I’m afraid I view these decent respectful sons who have been brought up so well as the same as the skinny 6’2 sons that so many MNers have - largely embellished bordering on mythical.

I base my opinions on my own personal experiences. 20 years ago I didn’t know anything. I would have been here fighting on behalf of poor misunderstood men, now it’s like a big obvious slap in the face, and once you’ve seen it you can’t unsee it.

Excellent post, and completely agree with all of it

OP posts:
WandaWonder · 10/06/2023 10:06

No I don't assume all me are some collective thing same as I don't think all women are either.

People do choose who they have relationships with so are responsible themselves for their choices they make on what they put up with, male or female

KateJohns · 10/06/2023 10:07

catslovelife · 10/06/2023 09:53

This with bells on!

I used to work in a clerical job in a workshop. Sometimes I would overhear conversations when they thought I /other women were not around.

Comments included:

'All women like being strangled'

'Does your girlfriend shave her bush'

'I saw some great pussy out on the weekend'

Etc etc

Show quote history

I said up thread I worked at place with a metal factory attached etc.

When the smoking ban came in a few years back, they put the office smoking area behind the factory canteen, right next to the window.

I will never ever forget hearing my office manager talking to the factory lads. My office manager was a married man with 3 teen daughters.
He described in great detail what he'd do to the new office girl, who was 17 at the time.
All the lads laughed and conversation started about what they'd do to her.
'rail her'
'kick her back doors in'
So on and so on, far more disgusting then I'd like to type here.

I complained to the office manager,
He said it was just banter.
I complained to his boss,
Who said it was probably just joking about.
I complained to the MD, a woman,
'Boys will be boys...'

I complained directly to the owner of the company in the presence of his wife..
A 2 day course got organised for the factory men on how not to be twats to women..
(Apparently I was just jealous that it wasn't me they were discussing.. )

catslovelife · 10/06/2023 10:14

@KateJohns good on you for complaining about it. But the reaction from the higher ups is so predictable and why many stay quiet when they come across this sort of behaviour. I was too scared to complain about what I heard because I knew no one would care and I would probably be regarded as jealous too. If women complain they are pulled apart by degenerate men.

JudgeRudy · 10/06/2023 10:19

I visited Auschwitz recently. I had similar thoughts - how on earth did ordinary folk go along with it. Google the Milgram Experiment. We are all social creatures. I can distinctly recall adults drowning kittens and theres adults now holding down young girls as we speak and hacking off their genitals! It's not just men (but they do seem worse).
Incidenty, there are women who enjoy 'rough sex' or get a thrill from provocatively rubbing against men/bending over in front of men and inducing a reaction. The theme seems to be power. But I'm pretty sure men are drawn to it more.

IsThereAnEchoInHere · 10/06/2023 10:26

For thise women who have woken in to a reality of men, you are and choose to remain single, right?

And this is not a lazy ’gotcha’, I promise.

There’s no way you want of these men in your home and life, right?
Otherwise, what would even be the point of this thread?

IsThereAnEchoInHere · 10/06/2023 10:26

*those

KateJohns · 10/06/2023 10:31

IsThereAnEchoInHere · 10/06/2023 10:26

For thise women who have woken in to a reality of men, you are and choose to remain single, right?

And this is not a lazy ’gotcha’, I promise.

There’s no way you want of these men in your home and life, right?
Otherwise, what would even be the point of this thread?

Been single for 10 years.

No intention of that changing.

I have no doubt that some women will pick a man they think decent, can't blame them for that and they may never wake up, but I'll pretty much doubt 99% of their claims.

chupachucks · 10/06/2023 10:39

KateJohns · 10/06/2023 10:31

Been single for 10 years.

No intention of that changing.

I have no doubt that some women will pick a man they think decent, can't blame them for that and they may never wake up, but I'll pretty much doubt 99% of their claims.

Show quote history

They may never wake up 😅

God you really do think your special don't you. Even though you can't stand the fact some of us have brilliant husbands we cannot fault. You don't believe us that's fine but don't make out your better than them being single.

Makes me think there's a reason why and your post speak volumes.

Enjoying your twisted lonely view of the word, must be sad to dislike and distrust 50% of the planet.

IsThereAnEchoInHere · 10/06/2023 10:41

KateJohns · 10/06/2023 10:31

Been single for 10 years.

No intention of that changing.

I have no doubt that some women will pick a man they think decent, can't blame them for that and they may never wake up, but I'll pretty much doubt 99% of their claims.

Show quote history

Thanks for answering!

For them it’s more convenient to stay ignorant.

CurlewKate · 10/06/2023 10:46

@IsThereAnEchoInHere "For thise women who have woken in to a reality of men, you are and choose to remain single, right?"

No. Because we all either think we've got one of the good ones or we know or suspect we haven't but consider that better than nothing. Those of us who think we've got one of the good ones might well be right. Or we will one day discover we haven't.

Treaclemine · 10/06/2023 10:47

I get the impression that these men wouldn't last a day in a troop of chimps, who are much more socialised than them. But the troop of men are socialised by their elders, and employers, away from women, and do what they have to do to fit in. Other primates have mixed groups (especially bonobos) and if the males upset the females, the females set the dominant males on them. How the dominant men have become as they are needs finding out, but it won't get funded.

KateJohns · 10/06/2023 10:48

Enjoying your twisted lonely view of the word, must be sad to dislike and distrust 50% of the planet.

Wonder how many women trusted Couzens, Shipman, West, Saville, Harris, Glitter, Schofield, Watkins etc.

Maybe I wouldn't distrust men is so so many of them had proven time and time again that they don't deserve trust.

Treaclemine · 10/06/2023 10:49

BTW, single, but I have a very good friend who is one of the good ones. And I know others.

WandaWonder · 10/06/2023 10:51

KateJohns · 10/06/2023 10:48

Enjoying your twisted lonely view of the word, must be sad to dislike and distrust 50% of the planet.

Wonder how many women trusted Couzens, Shipman, West, Saville, Harris, Glitter, Schofield, Watkins etc.

Maybe I wouldn't distrust men is so so many of them had proven time and time again that they don't deserve trust.

And every women on the planet is a saint?

onefinemess · 10/06/2023 10:51

It must be exhausting to have so much hate and suspicion.

Half the population of the world written off. Your own sons branded closet rapists and abusers just for existing.

Jesus, and you all say men are the toxic ones.

Florissant · 10/06/2023 10:56

YABVVU.

chupachucks · 10/06/2023 10:57

KateJohns · 10/06/2023 10:48

Enjoying your twisted lonely view of the word, must be sad to dislike and distrust 50% of the planet.

Wonder how many women trusted Couzens, Shipman, West, Saville, Harris, Glitter, Schofield, Watkins etc.

Maybe I wouldn't distrust men is so so many of them had proven time and time again that they don't deserve trust.

1% of the population are responsible for over 63% of all violent crime. What percentage of the population have you just quoted and what is the risk in percentage terms you were at risk of them.

You have more risk of dieing from a bee sting 🐝 , ban the bloody bees 🤣

Geta grip. Hyperbole with out facts.

KateJohns · 10/06/2023 11:01

chupachucks · 10/06/2023 10:57

1% of the population are responsible for over 63% of all violent crime. What percentage of the population have you just quoted and what is the risk in percentage terms you were at risk of them.

You have more risk of dieing from a bee sting 🐝 , ban the bloody bees 🤣

Geta grip. Hyperbole with out facts.

Show quote history

Facts are cool.

160 women murdered every year.
1 in every 30 women raped or sexually abused.

The highest ever number of rapes within a 12-month period was recorded by police in the year ending September 2022: 70,633

In that same time period, charges were brought in just 2,616 rape cases

Using hyperbole.
Every year in the UK there are 2–9 deaths due to anaphylaxis from bee or wasp stings

If bees were killing 160+ and severely hurting 70k more... You'd better believe people wouldn't trust bees.