Using gender when studying Biology! What are they teaching.

[Confusedmumannoyedson]

So was talking about getting a pet and my son said what gender. I said not gender just boy or girl and he said we aren't 'allowed' to say that anymore we have to use gender. I explained that gender is something you can pick and there are lots people use including them/they which is fine for how someone identifies but not for animals or when talking biology. I am thinking he is confused because he said they use gender in biology now and don't use sex. I checked with a friend who said he is right.

AIBU? Surely sex should be used for a science subject like biology, and gender should be kept for personal use for how someone thinks they are.

Read 1984. If they change the language we can't rebel.

Biological gender 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

No. You're right. Sex and gender have different meanings and gender has no place in science.

There are more than 2 sexes in a lot of other animals though, or were you too incensed to actually teach your child something? Or was your education limited by some notion of Adam and eve, 2 by two?

This is becoming a nightmare, I teach my children that gender ideology is similar to religious ideology. It is something that people choose to believe rather than something that can be quantified like biological sex and science.

I am losing hope.
People whose job it is to teach children about biology should not be accepting this nonsense.
They are particularly well-placed to argue about the terminology which is apparently being forced upon them.

FFS.

Okay, tell me which mammals have more than two sexes.

Then tell me about all the other animals - there must be loads, according to you.

How old is your son?

It's nothing to do with Adam and Eve.
It's called biology.
There are two sexes, male and female.

Not at all. Mammals are male and female. Could you let me know which animals have different genders then?

@Conkersinautumn can you list all the animals with multiple sexes then please?

Ah thanks for this as a good comparison.

I'm always trying to find a way to explain how sex has defined boundaries and gender is a social construct.

But a belief like religion is a perfect analogy.

He is 15 and usually pretty bright, I guess he isn't as bright as his school report suggests. However, he said that his teacher said they should use gender and it's all they use. I did chat to him about ideologies around gender and beliefs and that science and biology is based around chromosomes and sex.

I think I need to suggest he questions a bit more rather than relies on what school says. My mistake.

There are more than 2 sexes in a lot of other animals though, or were you too incensed to actually teach your child something? Or was your education limited by some notion of Adam and eve, 2 by two?

Can you name the other sexes of whichever animals you're referring to?

@Conkersinautumn we are all interested in the different sexes other than male and female of the particular animals you were referring to. Do you work at my son's school by any chance?

I'm a scientist. I suspect he is just confused.

That said, all the people on Mumsnet having 'gender reveal parties' are clearly no more enlightened than a teenager. I think you are assuming this is part of some trans conspiracy to take over the world. Unfortunately, speaking here as a scientist, it's just because many people don't actually understand the difference between the two terms and are using them interchangeable. Just like they have for like 30 years...

It will be hard for a lone voice to speak out especially against a figure of authority (the teacher). Gender and sex used to be used interchangeably in the past but now it's messy and complicated and gender seems to have taken over even though you mostly mean sex

I'm also interested to know about the additional sexes in a lot of other animals.

Thanks. I will have a chat with his tutor. Hoping he has misunderstood, wasn't convinced though based on another parent's comments. Perhaps the schools are teaching in a way that confuses children? Many adults also appear confused.

It's batshit.

And if we can't rely on biology teachers to hold the line, we are truly fucked.

@mindutopia since you are a scientist could you perhaps help with which animals have other sexes (rather than just male and female) as @Conkersinautumn stated since many of us are confused which animals the poster is referring to. Naturally some fish/frogs or lower species might change to suit breeding conditions (Clown fish I know do) but I thought they were still male or female rather than lots of different sexes. That's a new one.

I think the confusion comes from gender being used in two different ways:

1. as a "polite" word for biological sex
2. as gender identity which some people may feel is different to biological sex

It really annoys me!!

I think the confusion comes from gender being used in two different ways

True. But we need to get some clarity in terms of language very quickly, because this ambiguity is being exploited

Many biology and medical journals explicitly state in the author instructions not to conflate sex and gender. For example, The Lancet say "For all study types, we encourage correct use of the terms sex (when reporting biological factors) and gender (when reporting identity, psychosocial, or cultural factors)."

Sex refers to biological sex - male / female.
Gender refers to societal rolesand behaviours - masculinity / femininity.

Gender used to be used in place of sex for politeness and to get rid of the "Sex"? "YES PLEASE LOL" element but has subsequently taken over and is now conflated for sex.