Using gender when studying Biology! What are they teaching.

[Confusedmumannoyedson]

So was talking about getting a pet and my son said what gender. I said not gender just boy or girl and he said we aren't 'allowed' to say that anymore we have to use gender. I explained that gender is something you can pick and there are lots people use including them/they which is fine for how someone identifies but not for animals or when talking biology. I am thinking he is confused because he said they use gender in biology now and don't use sex. I checked with a friend who said he is right.

AIBU? Surely sex should be used for a science subject like biology, and gender should be kept for personal use for how someone thinks they are.

Yep the deluded one is called @Conkersinautumn who thinks that there are animals out there with other sexes other than male and female. 🙄

I suspect that Conker has gone off hunting for an elusive sex other than male or female. Might need a big bowl of popcorn and a very long wait for the return though.

🤣

We'll all be long dead by the time Conkers finds one.

BTW I couldn't be further from a biologist, but any half-baked fool like me knows that there are two sexes: male and female. Anything else is a load of cobblers.

Any sniggering during sex education in my day was met by either 'don't be so silly', or 'would you like to explain to the rest of the class what is so funny?' My Biology teacher was truly terrifying, though, I must say😀

YANBU. Pets and humans are male or female (boy and girl or man or women if grown up) and sex cannot be changed.

People treat gender as though it’s a synonym for sex, when it’s no such thing.

I’m saddened by how this has become fairly unpleasant towards someone making an interesting and valid scientific point. As a now biology teacher, formerly behavioural evolution researcher with a specialism in the evolution of sexual reproduction (not as kinky as it sounds), this really is my favourite area and I love that people are taking an interest.

I’ve written a long and detailed response to this three times but my phone keeps refreshing and losing it, so I’ve got fed up and am using this from someone else (cannot find who to give credit to):

First of all, in a sexual species, you can have females be XX and males be X (insects), you can have females be ZW and males be ZZ (birds), you can have females be females because they developed in a warm environment and males be males because they developed in a cool in a cool environment (reptiles), you can have females be females because they lost a penis sword fighting context (some flatworms), you can have males be males because they were born female, but changed sexes because the only male in their group died (parrotfish and clownfish), you can have males look and act like females because they are trying to get close enough to actual females to mate with them (cuttlefish, bluegills, others), or you can be one of thousands of sexes (slime mold, some mushrooms.) Oh, did you mean humans? Oh ok then. You can be male because you were born female, but you have 5-alphareductase deficiency and so you grew a penis at age 12. You can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome but you are insensitive to androgens, and so you have a female body. You can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but one of your X's HAS an SRY gene, and so you have a male body. You can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but also a Y. You can be female because you have only one X chromosome at all. And you can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but your heart and brain are male.

For what it’s worth, there are many, many species with more than two sexes- some slime moulds with thousands :)

And back to the focus of the OP- yes, XX and XY as they learn in GCSE biology should be referred to as sex, not gender. I and all other biology teachers I know are very careful to ensure that we clarify the distinction- but as a previous reply stated, there are a lot of older exam questions still in circulation that get it wrong. It’s possible that the teacher or your son got muddled.

For what it’s worth, there are many, many species with more than two sexes

I don't think anything you are describing is actually an additional sex. If it is, what is the gamete and what is its role in reproduction?

Nothing you've described there is mammalian.

For what it’s worth, there are many, many species with more than two sexes- some slime moulds with thousands

You're talking of mating types, not sexes.

I fear you have conflated “mammal” with “animal”- those are not synonymous.

I suspect you’re familiar with hermaphroditic snails, for example? Very much animals that you’ll have come across regularly- but no, not mammals. I don’t think mammals was ever the claim- although as that long paragraph states, there are complexities even amongst mammals such as humans.

Nope, sexes. You’re right that mating types is also another minefield; side-blotched lizards are one of the most famous examples, and I recommend a read about them if you haven’t already 😊

There may be complexities among mammals but there are only two sexes in humans.

Honestly I’m not sure comments here have the scope for this as it’s a really interesting but complex topic.

Gametes don’t have to be sexually dimorphism like with human egg and sperm. We have huge eggs and tiny sperm- evolutionarily this works for mammals as the females invests heavily in a few eggs, and the male invests in billions of tiny cells instead. The egg is the cell that then divides to form the offspring.

Not everything works like mammals though- in fact, numerically speaking most things don’t, it’s just that we focus so heavily on mammals because we’re pretty self centred as humans!

With some species, the ‘male’ gamete is actually the bigger one, and the ‘female’ is smaller- which then leads to a fun debate about what defines male or female. With others, the gametes are equally sized, and this is typically what allows for more than two sexes. If all gametes are equally sized (isogamous), you can have more than two different types that are able to fuse together successfully.

While you're here, can you define what a woman is?

Not everything works like mammals though

Perhaps not, but y'know, mammals do

This feels like moving the goal posts 🤔

But regardless, half of my long post was giving examples of when the usual XX and XY is not always as simple as you might think.

To be clear, I am not arguing that there are not two sexes for humans- but the beautiful thing about biology is that there are no perfect definitions and there are always exceptions to the rule. Getting arsey about that just looks silly.

To be clear, I am not arguing that there are not two sexes for human

Glad to hear that

Birds have male and female sexes, their chromosomes are called Z and W. This is binary and not in addition to X and Y.

Yeah not fuelling any anti-trans rhetoric. Nice try.

The original question was about the difference between sex and gender in gcse biology teaching. “Woman” isn’t a biological term so gender rules apply.

Follow up questions were about sexes in different species.

Gender is a separate, social construct.

I dread to think how you feel when you get your head around the difference between sex and gender.

This is fascinating. Thanks for explaining it!!

I remember hearing in lecture on game theory how cuttle fish form relationships where the partners alternate being the female (as being female comes with a high reproductive cost). Apparently, sometimes the cuttle fish try to cheat and be male several times in a row, which their partner might tolerate a couple of times but not more often. Or something like that...

I dread to think how you feel when you get your head around the difference between sex and gender.

I don't give a flying about gender as it happens. Be whatever gender you 'feel' or have whatever relationship with gender stereotypes you like. It's not particularly relevant to anyone one.

Your sex is, however relevant to how you interact with others in the world and I'm glad you are in agreement that there are only two sexes for humans.

👍

Nope. woman = adult human female. Always has done.