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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Using gender when studying Biology! What are they teaching.

161 replies

Confusedmumannoyedson · 06/06/2023 17:03

So was talking about getting a pet and my son said what gender. I said not gender just boy or girl and he said we aren't 'allowed' to say that anymore we have to use gender. I explained that gender is something you can pick and there are lots people use including them/they which is fine for how someone identifies but not for animals or when talking biology. I am thinking he is confused because he said they use gender in biology now and don't use sex. I checked with a friend who said he is right.

AIBU? Surely sex should be used for a science subject like biology, and gender should be kept for personal use for how someone thinks they are.

OP posts:
BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 07/06/2023 08:46

Ah good, that saves me tagging you into the thread @Kucinghitam. I do hope you have that saved on your clipboard rather than having to retype it every time.

Tinysoxx · 07/06/2023 09:11

ChatWTF · 07/06/2023 00:00

there are observed differences:

How our brains differ
The neuroscience literature shows that the human brain is a sex-typed organ with distinct anatomical differences in neural structures and accompanying physiological differences in function, says UC-Irvine professor of neurobiology and behavior Larry Cahill, PhD. Cahill edited the 70-article January/February 2017 issue of the Journal of Neuroscience Research — the first-ever issue of any neuroscience journal devoted entirely to the influence of sex differences on nervous-system function.
Brain-imaging studies indicate that these differences extend well beyond the strictly reproductive domain, Cahill says. Adjusted for total brain size (men’s are bigger), a woman’s hippo­campus, critical to learning and memorization, is larger than a man’s and works differently. Conversely, a man’s amygdala, associated with the experiencing of emotions and the recollection of such experiences, is bigger than a woman’s. It, too, works differently, as Cahill’s research has demonstrated.

https://theconversation.com/amp/you-dont-have-a-male-or-female-brain-the-more-brains-scientists-study-the-weaker-the-evidence-for-sex-differences-158005

You can’t tell the difference between a male and female brain. I have also asked a neurosurgeon and he said no too. It doesn’t really matter one way or another (unless people with gender dysphoria think somehow their brains are of the wrong sex) but that study you quoted does not change what most medical people think.

You don't have a male or female brain – the more brains scientists study, the weaker the evidence for sex differences

https://theconversation.com/amp/you-dont-have-a-male-or-female-brain-the-more-brains-scientists-study-the-weaker-the-evidence-for-sex-differences-158005

Confusedmumannoyedson · 07/06/2023 09:41

scienceteacher101 · 07/06/2023 08:02

Science teacher here. Biology is not my specialism but I've had to teach more of it over the past few years. I've been astonished at how many resources conflate gender and sex in a context where it can only be referring to biological sex. I always change where possible and or reword in my explanation. I've been teaching science for decades and it's only the past couple of years I've had this need to preface the word sex with "biological" constantly to keep myself right lest the students complain. (And if you teach science and are embarrassed to use the word sex in front of a class then it might be time for a career change.) Some exam board specs still confuse this (eg 2023 CIE IGCSE) but I note it's been removed in the 2025 onwards edition.
They currently name gender as a factor in human nutritional requirements and a risk factor in developing coronary heart disease! Inheritance topic is at least usually clear as most specs still teach XX/XY chromosomes and explain it defines (biological) sex not gender.

Indeed.

We were watching a programme at breakfast this morning. It is a series that follows Columbus Zoo in the US. A very rare fox was pregnant and the keeper said 'let's find out what genders they are' and scanned then! I mean no wonder some children/adults are confused the silly keeper thought that she was checking a gender but was really checking for sex. A teacher upthread said that a child would lose marks if using gender when referring to sex in a biology exam - that is my concern so I have had a chat and said that many adults are confused. That gender is a social construct and like another poster said a bit like a religion with an ideological belief system. Sex is fact and to use the word sex during any and every science lessons unless they are talking about feelings and social constructs.

OP posts:
ChatWTF · 07/06/2023 09:46

@Tinysoxx

The study I quoted is from a peer reviewed journal, one of the top rated globally, which if you know anything about science you’ll understand. This is not a hack or anything to do with a gender dysmorphia discussion.

you have quoted from a random editorial and your friend who is a neuro surgeon, yet the fact they didn’t even mention the size difference is worrying.

There are some people on this thread who seem determined to read something into a post that isn’t there to meet their own agenda. I AM NOT talking about gender dysmorphia, I am talking about physiological differences. Do your own actual research.

Tinysoxx · 07/06/2023 09:50

ChatWTF · 07/06/2023 09:46

@Tinysoxx

The study I quoted is from a peer reviewed journal, one of the top rated globally, which if you know anything about science you’ll understand. This is not a hack or anything to do with a gender dysmorphia discussion.

you have quoted from a random editorial and your friend who is a neuro surgeon, yet the fact they didn’t even mention the size difference is worrying.

There are some people on this thread who seem determined to read something into a post that isn’t there to meet their own agenda. I AM NOT talking about gender dysmorphia, I am talking about physiological differences. Do your own actual research.

And I disagreed with you. I have done my research. The neurosurgeon worked on my child.

BohrMagneton · 07/06/2023 10:08

I just thank God that my children have grown up before all this bollocks became normalised, world has gone stark staring fucking mad

Verv · 07/06/2023 10:10

Tinysoxx · 07/06/2023 09:50

And I disagreed with you. I have done my research. The neurosurgeon worked on my child.

Gina Rippon debunked the gendered brain as neurosexism nonsense a few years back and wrote a book about it. She's a neuroscientist.
There was another study here which concluded - "Sex differences are sexy, but this false impression that there is such a thing as a 'male brain' and a 'female brain' has had wide impact on how we treat boys and girls, men and women," Dr. Eliot said."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210325115316.htm

Massive study reveals few differences between men's and women's brains: Neuroscientists conduct meta-synthesis of three decades of research

How different are men's and women's brains? The question has been explored for decades, but a new study coalesces this wide-ranging research into a single mega-synthesis. And the answer is: hardly at all.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210325115316.htm

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 07/06/2023 10:11

Gina Rippon's The Gendered Brain is a really good dissection of the evidence on differences in brain structures.

[Summary: there are no pink or blue brains; what there is is an awful lot of cherry picked data, bad research questions, tiny sample sizes, poor methods, confirmatian bias, and skewed reporting of results.]

Kucinghitam · 07/06/2023 10:18

Also, further reading recommendation: look up the Univariate Fallacy.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 07/06/2023 10:23

I have read of some animals that are able to change biological sex, IIRC certain snails are among them, but I’ve never heard of any other animal, inc. fish, amphibians or reptiles, let alone mammals, with this ability.

If anyone else has, do please enlighten me.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 07/06/2023 11:06

That's sequential hermaphrodites. Like the famous clownfish.

Irrelevant to mammals, and there are still only 2 sexes that they are changing between.

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