Contacting school about male teacher

[Slidingdowntherainbow]

My child goes to a preschool attached to a primary school. The Head is always on the gate each morning welcoming children (and parents) in the gates, we see her every morning.

The other day, I went to collect my child earlier than usual and walked past the playing field as usual, it's on the way to the preschool.

It was a hot day and the Head, along with another female colleague, was sitting on a grass bank watching the children and I know they saw this as they laughed.

A male teacher was walking along the playing field with each hand squeezing two girls shoulders. So he was between them, with a hand on each of their outside shoulders, seemingly squeezing. The girls were giggling and the the Head laughed. Not that I think it matters as he shouldn't be touching them at all, but it wasn't a quick squeeze, he was more resting his hands there for a good 30 seconds I'd say.

Anyway, it may be nothing, but it made me feel very uncomfortable. 1) it's inappropriate to touch a pupil for no good reason 2) he gives me the ick anyway, he's a big presence and I sometimes see him when dropping my child off and I just don't like his demeanor, not sure why.

Do I report this? My child won't be going to this school so I'm not worried about that. More that the Head actually saw this with her own eyes and laughed, so I suspect will be defensive. I then have to walk past her daily, potentially for the next two years. Unfortunately I can't report anonymously as I was the only person walking past at this time.

I'm not suggesting anything more than this has happened, but isn't this a slippery slope? Should a teacher (especially male), be touching pupils necks?

Would appreciate opinions please!

Out of interest what do you think a complaint would achieve?? How would you want the head to respond??

Did I blink and wake up in Dubai?

So...if we assume the head teacher sat watching was herself unhappy with this interaction, why so you assume she hasn't done anything about it? Because Iif it was intrinsically wrong and she observed it, she would be setting herself and her school up for problems if she did nothing. So, she's a professional in charge, saw an inappropriate exchange, recorded it, spoke with the member of staff concerned, spoke with the children concerned and satisfied herself all was well. Or he'd now be on gardening leave pending investigation, surely?

That’s a bit different isn’t it! I had children by my ‘boss’ doesn’t mean I’d want any of our fellow colleagues squeezing or touching my shoulders.

Good that you can see other people's perspective OP, and that you realise reporting this interaction would be inappropriate.

Also - you may have had experiences that lead you to believe otherwise, but it is genuinely ok for a teacher to touch a child's shoulder. Most parents would think nothing of it (as you can see by this thread) and it will happen wherever your child goes. Its something you may need to reframe in your mind, it is normal and not a safeguarding concern

I think you have been getting a hard time - you felt a red flag and you asked for other's opinions, and even if they disagreed with you, it was unnecessary to be so critical. Its not as if you did complain you were asking for feedback to help make up your mind. I hope this thread experience does not put you off making a complaint in future if you experience another red flag - always trust your instinct.

I felt so sad reading this. That people have become so warped in their thinking, that they could see such an innocent exchange and jump to such a disgusting conclusion. Poor bloke.

Op, you honestly need help.

I've worked in schools for 10 years primary and secondary. Completed safeguarding training many times and have never been told not to touch a child in fact was told that some children need physical affection, I work in secondary school now and I still touch the students, ive hugged or given physical affection/support to a lot of nervous year 11s in the last couple of weeks.
I suggest you revisit your safeguarding training as I think you have seriously misinterpreted it.

Male teachers are not being dissuaded from going into teaching because they aren't allowed to touch pupils' shoulders. They're being dissuaded from going into teaching - or staying in it - because people assume that they're paedophiles for no apparent reason, other than the fact that they're men.

As for establishing what the OP's dc think of this teacher... they aren't even at the school! So the OP's dislike of the guy is based solely on her perceptions of his "demeanour" when observed from afar. This is enough, apparently, to give her "the ick".

It may well be that you’re overreacting,however asking for advice when genuinely concerned should not instigate the vile abuse that has been levied at you. How many times has seemingly overly friendly behaviour masked something inappropriate, your concern is for children and you have a work history in schools ,if this makes you over cautious it’s understandable.

It may well be that these teachers were laughing at the male teacher as he’s a reputation for being handsy and in their minds it’s just a bit of fun to them.

If as you say this is a genuine no no( I’d first double check that) then you should let your conscience guide you. If it was harmless then the head will add context to the situation when interviewed.

I’m shocked at the responses on here! It’s already been stated that teachers have a NO touching rule (unless an emergency) to avoid any ambiguity. What next, a quick stroke or squeeze of the knee is okay as it was just for reassurance? No one has to be melodramatic about it but the casual acceptance of teachers being allowed to casually touch or squeeze your kids is surprising to say the least. The fact my son said he didn’t like it when a teacher did this and (jokingly) refers to him as the paedo teacher should be enough to tell you lot that no it’s not acceptable!

Hi
You must have been very close to notice a squeeze ...
Im a TA and often put my arm over children to give support or walk with my hand on shoulders ie when getting two kids to apologise to each other...ie we have a little walk n talk ...I might give them a squeeze as in a well done girls / boys ...
I really don't think what you saw was a safeguarding issue ....in full view of people walking by and other teachers

Quite.

It's always interesting when you do safeguarding with people for the first time and ask them what they think it is, and what the "rules" are.

(And you only have to look at the threads on here where the default response to virtually everything is "safeguarding!!" to know it's a word that has been deprived of virtually any meaning)

I don't see any problem.
Speak about it with the head teacher who also saw it.
Discuss your opinion about not touching kids.
The teacher doesn't need reporting; I think his behaviour is reasonable but if you don't then others also might not, thus, just have a discussion with the head.

This.

From what you've said in here OP, you witnessed an interaction which took place in full view of two other members of staff . All the adults carry DBS's for that school. They would have a duty of care to report anything untoward that they observed and from what you could see, those other staff members appeared comfortable with the situation.

Children do sometimes need reassurance and they can involved touch, especially in a primary school setting. As long as it's not inappropriate and in full view of another adult then safeguarding is being followed.

You do not like this male member of staff. You've made that abundantly clear. But your dislike isn't a warrant for potentially destroying his career with what are probably false allegations. I'm sure that the Head of the school who was a witness would have raised concerns of necessary.

I find the fact you're looking in on interactions within a school as a member of the public far more concerning and a little creepy

Oh my god, please do not report anything. It sounds completely innocent. Did you not read the thread last week where 2 mothers complained about a teachers behaviour? The teacher was sacked and both women regretted saying anything as they were ostracised by all the other parents and they realised the teacher in question would never work in education again.

Hi OP,

I don't agree with most posters here - I would absolutely NOT like to have my shoulders touched at work. But I am a very non-tactile person and fully comfortable telling people so, without making them feel uncomfortable. I work in an artsy world where hugs are standard 'hello' but I am fine saying 'sorry, not a hugger' with a smile and hand extended and I've never had anyone mind.

Regarding what you saw. I don't think this requires a report. I agree hands on a child's shoulders seems unnecessary and something I wold also raise an eyebrow to, but I find it reassuring that other PPs don't see a problem. There was another teacher present, kids seemed fine with it, there was no obvious threat to the child. So I think on this occasion, no report needed.

But there isn’t such a rule.

Whatever happened with your son, did you report it?

Why women are calling each and every man a perve these days? The way kids run and give hug to a female teacher, the same they do to male teachers. Why the gender is what makes difference to you to start with?! Or is it that English women need to sexualise their children and turn them against normal men from younger age????

It has been stated that there is NO no touching rule.
And the only person being melodramatic is you with your silly comparison.
Your son needs to watch what he's saying with no foundation. Otherwise he might be the one in bother.

As a former DSL in a nursery, I would be more concerned if the staff weren't showing affection and building a rapport with the children. What you have described here is very far removed from a safeguarding concern. Withholding affection and emotional warmth would be a concern and could be considered neglect. Also, never once in all my years working with children have I ever herd that "the number one rule is not to touch children unless absolutely necessary". OP I think you maybe have some level of projection here based on your experiences or biases, please seek some help before this becomes s problem for your child.

Yet she claims not to dislike him as she doesn't know him.

He's a man. I expect that's enough.

All the teachers you saw will be fully versed on safeguarding. They, like all school staff will have been fully trained at least once every year. The head teacher, who was present, will most likely be the school safeguarding lead. She would not take any chances with inappropriate touching. You are showing prejudice and being judgemental about a person you don't know.

I am a teacher and our whole staff recently received training on how to touch children appropriately. It makes me laugh that we need this kind of training, but this is the world we live in. We were told that if children needed to be moved or directed, to keep them or others safe, we were to guide them by the shoulders. Maybe this is what he was doing. Maybe they had wandered off. Maybe he has a lovely jovial disposition and was having a laugh with them. Stop making assumptions about something you know nothing about.

You should not be hanging about outside a school that your children do not attend watching children. This is the only safeguarding issue here.

Personally, I understand the difference!

I've been "touched" my male and female colleagues at work for decades! Likewise I touch them. It's just normal life and means nothing when it's during during conversations, joke/story telling, looking over someone's shoulder at the screen etc. A hand on the shoulder or arm, in the right context, in front of other people, is absolutely harmless for children and adults alike.

I've also been "touched" inappropriately by the "office creep" and there's a big difference - the most notable difference is that they do it in private! Luckily, these days, we don't have to put up with the inappropriate touching anymore - when I started work back in the 80s, it was endemic.

I find it sad that supposedly grown up adults such as the OP don't understand the difference!