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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Contacting school about male teacher

552 replies

Slidingdowntherainbow · 30/05/2023 09:28

My child goes to a preschool attached to a primary school. The Head is always on the gate each morning welcoming children (and parents) in the gates, we see her every morning.

The other day, I went to collect my child earlier than usual and walked past the playing field as usual, it's on the way to the preschool.

It was a hot day and the Head, along with another female colleague, was sitting on a grass bank watching the children and I know they saw this as they laughed.

A male teacher was walking along the playing field with each hand squeezing two girls shoulders. So he was between them, with a hand on each of their outside shoulders, seemingly squeezing. The girls were giggling and the the Head laughed. Not that I think it matters as he shouldn't be touching them at all, but it wasn't a quick squeeze, he was more resting his hands there for a good 30 seconds I'd say.

Anyway, it may be nothing, but it made me feel very uncomfortable. 1) it's inappropriate to touch a pupil for no good reason 2) he gives me the ick anyway, he's a big presence and I sometimes see him when dropping my child off and I just don't like his demeanor, not sure why.

Do I report this? My child won't be going to this school so I'm not worried about that. More that the Head actually saw this with her own eyes and laughed, so I suspect will be defensive. I then have to walk past her daily, potentially for the next two years. Unfortunately I can't report anonymously as I was the only person walking past at this time.

I'm not suggesting anything more than this has happened, but isn't this a slippery slope? Should a teacher (especially male), be touching pupils necks?

Would appreciate opinions please!

OP posts:
Fairislefandango · 30/05/2023 09:49

How do you feel when your male boss or colleague squeezes your shoulder?

I think you are failing to understand human interactions and also the difference between children and adults, between schools and adult workplaces, between employees and pupils. And probably a bunch of other stuff too.

Of course there need to be rules about what is and isn't appropriate, and teachers and senior management need to be on the lookout for anything dodgy. But touch shouldn't be totally outlawed, and it sounds like it was totally obvious from the reactions of the pupils you saw that nothing remotely problematic was going on.

Original poster
Slidingdowntherainbow · 30/05/2023 09:49

FirstTimeNameChanger · 30/05/2023 09:47

I would not want my boss (male or female) to touch my shoulders. However, I would also not want my boss to:
Correct my behaviour when I'm eating
Tell me to be quiet when I'm talking out of turn
Suggest I think about what I've done
Praise me with stickers
Hug me if I scrape my knee
Tell my mum what I've got up to...
You get the point, right OP? School is not a workplace for children. Different rules apply

Why wouldn't you want your (male) boss to touch your shoulders? How would it make you feel?

OP posts:
RudsyFarmer · 30/05/2023 09:50

I’d need to see what you plan on emailing before I could comment. Right now from your post you’d be complaining of some people laughing and shoulders being touched by a male. I’d need to see how you’d spin that into a safe guarding complaint.

Dracarys1 · 30/05/2023 09:50

If there were a no touching rule schools would be a simply awful place to be. My 6 year old DD has had some wobbles this term and knowing that she'll get a little hug if she needs it makes me feel better when i leave her in tears. As PP said, primary teachers are in loco parentis, they're not the children's bosses. It's totally different.

BSB30 · 30/05/2023 09:50

Out of curiosity, and apologies if you have already said why, but if your child doesn't go to the school, why are you at that school seeing what this teacher does? Do you work there?

HoIIy · 30/05/2023 09:51

Slidingdowntherainbow · 30/05/2023 09:44

Bullshit. And if you reported it to HR, they'd have words with him too. You don't go around squeezing people's shoulders, especially in professional environments and even more so you children.

Show quote history

It's really not bullshit. You are completely mad! Just because you don't agree with virtually everyone's reply doesnt make you right you know. Why on earth would I care if my boss touched my shoulders, and why the fuck would I stomp off to HR....only mad people do shit like that when there's no issue. Honestly have a word with yourself.

Emmamoo89 · 30/05/2023 09:51

Wtaf

TeaParty4Me · 30/05/2023 09:51

It would be impossible for school staff to not touch pupils, especially primary aged.

I work in a SEND secondary school and we have to shower them and change their nappies, so we literally see them naked and touch them in intimate areas.
Most of the time we have 2 staff there but due to staff shortages we do have to do it 1-1 which parents are ok with.

There is a fine line about teaching them consent and touching without their permission.

In this situation he did nothing wrong.
He touched their shoulders in plain view of other staff.

Tbh it sounds like you have an issue with this teacher/school and are trying to find something to complain about.

NowZeusHasLainWithLeda · 30/05/2023 09:51

Slidingdowntherainbow · 30/05/2023 09:48

I don't know the man, so how can I dislike him?

I said, and you quoted, I don't like his demeanor. But that, I mean, I don't like the attitude he gives off when he's hanging outside the classrooms in the morning. His seemingly arrogant attitude. My child doesn't go to the school, so I don't know anything about him.

As a DSL lead, you really can't be advocating that it's ok for any teacher to be touching childrens shoulders unnecessarily.

The children weren't upset and needing a quick cuddle. Not were they playing a game of tag or something that requires physical contact.

I'm shocked that as a DSL lead you seem to know nothing about appropriate boundaries. Perhaps you could ask Ofsted if squeezing pupils shoulders in a prolonged way is appropriate, I'd be interested to see their response.

Show quote history

Now you're taking the piss.

neverbeenskiing · 30/05/2023 09:52

I'm shocked that as a DSL lead you seem to know nothing about appropriate boundaries.

It's interesting that you genuinely believe every safeguarding officer, Teacher, DSL and Head Teacher on this thread is wrong about what constitutes appropriate boundaries in a primary school setting, and only you know what's right.

Glittertwins · 30/05/2023 09:52

I really think you have a bit of an extreme reaction here and this is probably why so many men don't want to have anything to do with anything child related, be it school or out of school related. I'm sick of men being viewed with utmost suspicion when they're in a children's play park with their own children! You really need to remove this attitude as it will perpetuate down to your own children therefore making it even worse.

NowZeusHasLainWithLeda · 30/05/2023 09:52

BSB30 · 30/05/2023 09:50

Out of curiosity, and apologies if you have already said why, but if your child doesn't go to the school, why are you at that school seeing what this teacher does? Do you work there?

AS shows she works in a school in some capacity. Perhaps the same one. Clearly not had safeguarding training but.

Laiste · 30/05/2023 09:53

No - you're being OTT.

I've worked in schools at primary level for just under 10 years. There is no ''NUMBER ONE RULE'' for safegaurding. Certainly not about touching the children. Reassuring hugs in places where others can see are fine.

There are certain children with a 'never to be alone with' clause because of their specific needs/requirements/backgrounds, but even with them IME there's never been a 'no touch' rule.

WRT to comparing the nurturing nature of teaching primary age children with behaviour in an all adult working environment - are you mad? How many times do you fall over at your work place and need a plaster put on your knee by your boss? Or have them help you change your pissy pants? Never? Thought so. Because it's totally different! 🙄

StarDolphins · 30/05/2023 09:54

Just because it’s a male teacher? Poor guy. You are definitely being unreasonable.

Sissynova · 30/05/2023 09:54

I said, and you quoted, I don't like his demeanor. But that, I mean, I don't like the attitude he gives off when he's hanging outside the classrooms in the morning.

You don't even know him! You walk past him from a distance sometimes, how on earth have you concluded he is arrogant and what is the relevance to that and what you are apparently concerned about?

The biggest safeguarding red flag is you, a random adult woman hanging around watching a teacher and school children on a regular basis.

onlyconnect · 30/05/2023 09:54

I've experienced lots of safeguarding training over many years and have never been told that teachers shouldn't touch children. What a terrible world that would be. Please don't nudge us towards that path.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 30/05/2023 09:54

So-in your own words; touching a child’s shoulders is bad but…

The children weren't upset and needing a quick cuddle. Not were they playing a game of tag or something that requires physical contact

so shoulder touching bad
cuddling good

You couldn’t make it up. You clearly hate this guy and want to shit stir.Hmm

and you are still ignoring my questions

BSB30 · 30/05/2023 09:54

@NowZeusHasLainWithLeda That's what I thought but then OP said she doesn't know this teacher so I assumed she can't work there. I may be wrong.

Original poster
Slidingdowntherainbow · 30/05/2023 09:55

Fairislefandango · 30/05/2023 09:49

How do you feel when your male boss or colleague squeezes your shoulder?

I think you are failing to understand human interactions and also the difference between children and adults, between schools and adult workplaces, between employees and pupils. And probably a bunch of other stuff too.

Of course there need to be rules about what is and isn't appropriate, and teachers and senior management need to be on the lookout for anything dodgy. But touch shouldn't be totally outlawed, and it sounds like it was totally obvious from the reactions of the pupils you saw that nothing remotely problematic was going on.

I'm not suggesting the pupils were in any way abused. They were seemingly having fun (although in lots of these situations, especially when other adults are present, it would be normal for people to not show discomfort even if that's how they felt).

But that doesn't make it appropriate.

I want my daughter to go to school to make friends, to learn the curriculum and enjoy their childhood. I don't want them to be touched unless necessary. I assumed everyone felt that way but I'm clearly wrong.

This thread has helped me see that the majority of parents don't see this as a problem, so I won't report. I still think it's inappropriate, but it wasn't my child so I'll just leave it there, in hopes it was nothing more than a misguided action.

OP posts:
MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 30/05/2023 09:58

So you don't actually know this man, OP, but you have decided that he "gives you the ick" because you don't like his demeanour?

I have done lots of safeguarding training over the years and I think you're being ridiculous, based on what you have described here.

However, if you have concerns on the basis of what you've seen, then absolutely you should report... I'm sure that your extensive training advised you to flag any concerns promptly with the designated safeguarding lead rather than sharing them with random strangers on the Internet?

Hollyppp · 30/05/2023 09:58

No do not report anything - it’s a non thing

Gymmum82 · 30/05/2023 09:58

My daughters teacher last year was a young male. He picks them up. Bear hugs them. Tickles them. Touches them all the time.
He’s also a wonderful teacher. It’s very sad than an adult can no longer even touch a child in any way without fear of being reported.
Honestly he sounds like a great teacher and you sound like a nightmare parent

Fairislefandango · 30/05/2023 09:59

Out of interest, I'm assuming you're all happy for your male bosses to squeeze your shoulders? Really?

I'd be perfectly happy for my Head of Department to squeeze my shoulder, because I know her pretty well and it wouldn't seem weird at all. She gave me a big hug the other day to congratulate me on something. My Headteacher - not so much. Well not yet anyway. He's new and I've only really spoken to him twice.

That's the point, isn't it? How you interact with people,and what is appropriate, depends on the individual relationship you have with them, not just the status or position you occupy. You can bet that the teacher you saw would not put his hands on the shoulders of every single child he teaches. Some pupils like and thrive on that kind of interaction with the trusted adults around them (once they know them). Other pupils wouldn't like it. Pupils are individuals. It is part of your job as a teacher to get to know your students, give them what they need and interact with them in a way which they feel comfortable with, within the constraints of safeguarding guidelines. Kids do not enjoy being taught by robots.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 30/05/2023 09:59

OP AIBU
PP YES you really are
OP NO I’m not; you all know nothing
PP Yes you are still wrong and still not answering questions
OP I’m flouncing

MissyB1 · 30/05/2023 09:59

Stop hanging around that school spying on kids and staff, and send your kid somewhere else if you don’t trust that particular school.
And check your attitude towards male teachers.