Page 8 | Sister in law is causing a family rift over nothing

AcrossthePond55 · 30/05/2023 14:59

@Constantlyeyerolling

Since you mention 4th of July I assume you're in the US, as am I. The 'unspoken rule' where I am is that in the case of 'feuding families' you ignore the rift entirely, invite everyone, and leave it up to each to decide to attend or not to attend. Sounds as if that's what's been happening? If so, your BiL is WAY out of line to either encourage or discourage you from attending ANY family function. If SiL wants to 'bow out' let her do so, but don't you and your DW not go simply to placate her or BiL. She's the one causing the issues, let her miss out.

IMHO there is more going on here than just the one incident. Yes, I understand being upset over someone 'yelling' at one's child, but SiL has blown this so out of proportion that I'd be willing to bet that she has had something stuck in her craw about you and/or your DW long before this. The episode of DN hitting your DD was just the impetus for her to go her own version of NC with you and apparently to try to get you to stay away from family parties. Could be just petty jealousy (MiL treating your wife 'better', more childcare etc), it could be something that you/DW or even a 3rd party have said or done in all innocence but was deeply hurtful to her. But until either SiL or DB decide to come clean, there's nothing you can do about it.

As far as seeing your DN, I know it will be sad, but please stop babysitting! First off because he doesn't know how to behave around a baby and secondly because you are only feeding in to SiL's mindset. By allowing her to treat you so rudely, it reinforces to her that she is right and allows her to perceive that she is 'punishing' you and that you 'accept' that punishment.

Someone mentioned getting someone to play 'referee'. I disagree with this. Please don't get other family members involved. We had this when two of my uncles had a spat and an aunt tried to play peacemaker. It ended up with more family members feeling they had to 'take sides', a rift between 2 aunts (sisters in law) and it deeply upset the aunt who was only trying to 'do good'. Let everyone else in the family remain 'neutral'. If you start refusing to play into SiLs little games and demands perhaps she'll tire of them or she'll see that she is the one being 'left out' of family times or having to decline invites due to no childcare.

Just be who you are and accept what invitations you choose. Life is too short and extended family too precious to let one member rule your decisions.

FelisCatus0 · 30/05/2023 15:34

sweetdreamstenasee · 30/05/2023 14:35

She’s nuts but I think you’re being pushovers. I’d send a message like this.

Hi BIL. The discussion regarding the cookout has made us realise this rift has gone on long enough and our actions thus far have been on the assumption that this would blow over in time, however this is not the case also have come to these conclusions.

We will be attending the cook out, if you and wife want to join this is find by us. As your wife is the one with the issue, it’s up to her if she doesn’t want to be in our company or not, but we don’t have an issue being around her, and please take this as an assumption we will at all future family events we are invited to, as we value spending time with our family.

Furthermore, we won’t be able to provide childcare for nephew going forward. While we would love to have the cousins spend time together and while we love him very much, he still continues to be a hitter, a fact I suspect you know, and we don’t feel we are able to reprimand him accordingly when he does so, so it now a safety issue for our child. It is also offensive to us that you will readily use us for childcare if your parents wife is not willing to see us.

On to the issue itself, we apologised for shouting at nephew, but wife responded as any new mother would have done given our newborn was hit on her soft spot. We were actually surprised you didn’t make this clear to nephew this wasn’t acceptable. If it has been the other way around and our child had hit yours, we would have told the child off, made sure it wouldn’t happen again, and we would have apologised to you. We are surprised you didn’t offer an apology to us at the time. We trust you know we wouldn’t shout at nephew without reason, as you have proved by leaving him in our care when it suits you.

We hope this can be resolved soon, it seems silly and sad for your wife to miss out on family events because she cannot get past wife’s reaction to your child hitting our newborn, and to reiterate, we would have no problem and would be peasant at family gatherings. All the best, see you at the cookout.

This, is the best response OP. I would also include that your daughter was only eight...days...old. And say to him that if his son was hit at eight days old, his wife would have had a fit and gone apeshit, and he knows it. And, also, add that their son obviously has issues and his wife is not helping by ignoring it.

ICalledYouLastNightFromGlasgow · 30/05/2023 15:55

sweetdreamstenasee · 30/05/2023 14:35

She’s nuts but I think you’re being pushovers. I’d send a message like this.

Hi BIL. The discussion regarding the cookout has made us realise this rift has gone on long enough and our actions thus far have been on the assumption that this would blow over in time, however this is not the case also have come to these conclusions.

We will be attending the cook out, if you and wife want to join this is find by us. As your wife is the one with the issue, it’s up to her if she doesn’t want to be in our company or not, but we don’t have an issue being around her, and please take this as an assumption we will at all future family events we are invited to, as we value spending time with our family.

Furthermore, we won’t be able to provide childcare for nephew going forward. While we would love to have the cousins spend time together and while we love him very much, he still continues to be a hitter, a fact I suspect you know, and we don’t feel we are able to reprimand him accordingly when he does so, so it now a safety issue for our child. It is also offensive to us that you will readily use us for childcare if your parents wife is not willing to see us.

On to the issue itself, we apologised for shouting at nephew, but wife responded as any new mother would have done given our newborn was hit on her soft spot. We were actually surprised you didn’t make this clear to nephew this wasn’t acceptable. If it has been the other way around and our child had hit yours, we would have told the child off, made sure it wouldn’t happen again, and we would have apologised to you. We are surprised you didn’t offer an apology to us at the time. We trust you know we wouldn’t shout at nephew without reason, as you have proved by leaving him in our care when it suits you.

We hope this can be resolved soon, it seems silly and sad for your wife to miss out on family events because she cannot get past wife’s reaction to your child hitting our newborn, and to reiterate, we would have no problem and would be peasant at family gatherings. All the best, see you at the cookout.

This is perfect.

OriginalUsername2 · 30/05/2023 16:36

I agree it’s absolutely ridiculous of her. Go to all events and leave them to do what they want to do. BIL might finally realise she’s ridiculous too.

Nanaof1 · 30/05/2023 21:39

TequilaNights · 30/05/2023 08:03

Stop babysitting and continue to go to every single event your invited too.

Sil is enjoying the drama, so don't have any, ignore, she will have to learn to go without or get over it, because it's her problem to deal with, not yours.

THIS⬆

It sounds like your SIL is enjoying being a drama llama and being the center of attention as everyone bends to her will. Your DDN sounds like a terror and the fact that you will babysit him and let him be out of control while around your DD is just mind-boggling.
I am having a difficult time believing this is real because I can not wrap my head around the fact that you and your DW are pandering to your deranged SIL.
STOP the babysitting. STOP missing events so SIL can go and preen with delight over the fact that she kept you away. STOP giving BIL rides or pandering to him because he is enjoying the drama his NVDW is causing. STOP letting your DDN run your household and run roughshod over your DD, the one you should be protecting! STOP playing into ANY of the stupidity by giving SIL any satisfaction or control of what YOU all do and where you all go. She can sit at home and stew in her false sense of self-righteous indignation until the cows come home.

Also, how is DDN in kindergarten if he is under the age of three? WHY do you even need people to tell you anything, as common sense should have prevailed here a LONG time ago?
No offense, but all of you in this drama are nuts for the way you behave. You all actually take the "fun" out of a dysfunctional family. 🙄

Nanaof1 · 30/05/2023 22:03

thecookiecrumbles · 30/05/2023 08:29

It's not about the baby being shouted at, that's a red herring.

It's about your SIL and BIL wanting to put you in your place and for them to be the more important couple/family unit in the wider family unit and for you to be subordinate to them.

You are playing along with it by allowing yourselves to be used as 'the help' whilst not being good enough to socialise with.

When you ostracised yourself from the cookout (is that a barbecue?) you played further into this dynamic.

They don't care about your or respect you at all. I include your BIL in that.

They don't want to make up re: the shouting because it is isn't about that, it's about them asserting their superiority with them.

Drop the rope. Stop babysitting, stop engaging, stop caring. Go to family things you want to go to and ignore them if you need to.

@thecookiecrumbles 👏
I think you nailed it on the head. This really has little to do with fallout from yelling at a 16-month-old child who punched an 8-day-old baby and everything to do with a power struggle. The BIL/SIL seem like they want to be the "favorites" and will do anything, literally anything, to have that status. The OP and DW are playing right into it, even letting themselves be used as babysitters for the out of control DN when the BIL/SIL "let them".

Well said, and I wish I had read this before I wrote a reply!👏

Jux · 31/05/2023 16:10

I expect SIL was used to having the youngest/only gc and found herself displaced by the new baby and didn't like it, hence the beginnings. Once started, difficult to stop so became intransigent but also found it inconvenient to lose you completely as babysitters, thus total hypocrisy. I imagine BIL has no idea why she's like this, but it's root is jealousy of the new baby being centre of attention. Very childish altogether. She needs to grow up, and start to parent her child so that he's welcomed everywhere. That's the only way out for her without confronting herself. Make sure her child is FAR more popular than yours. Don't worry, this seems very unlikely to ever happen.

LovelyIssues · 31/05/2023 19:31

Your wife was completely right. Nephew wouldn't have realised he was hurting at that age, but needed to be told no. Your wife protected hers and your newborn.

baloosbaloos · 31/05/2023 19:46

@sweetdreamstenasee ’s response is perfect. Send that. And then do it. No more baby sitting. Go to every and any family event you want to.

I suspect fwiw once there are negative consequences for her horrible power play she might get over it. But if she doesn’t, it’s still the best route for you to take. I’m sorry you’ve been treated so badly.

Toomuchtrouble4me · 31/05/2023 21:33

Would love to hear Sil’s version of exactly what your wife did. This doesn’t add up, there’s two sides to every story and you wouldn’t be apologising that much unless she’d done a bit more than you’re admitting to. She shoved/hit their toddler didn’t she? Swearing? There’s more to this.

CMZ2018 · 31/05/2023 22:35

Fuck em, absolute nut cases.

Angrywife · 01/06/2023 00:13

OrderOfTheKookaburra · 30/05/2023 04:14

I agree with stopping with the apologies. Also stop with the babysitting as favours. Go to EVERY single social event you can. Don't not go just so that she can go to some. She doesn't want to go if you're there? She can sit at home on her own.

This. And I'd be offering to pick BIL up on the way!

MadMadaMim · 01/06/2023 00:47

"We’re also becoming increasingly angry at BIL for allowing her to behave this way"

She's an adult. She doesn't need permission. Bad/good behaviour (or most other rhi gs, for that matter) do not require spousal permission.

BIL isn't responsible for his DW's actions

WordsandSentences · 01/06/2023 01:22

Trying to defuse / go along with it etc isn’t working, so I’d stop trying, just do what you need to do.

jacks11 · 01/06/2023 01:30

Well, it does seem a totally bizarre reaction on the part of the SIL. I’m sure a child of that age is not acting out of malice, but still needs to be reprimanded (which he rightly was by OP’s wife and then the child’s father) and no more needed to be said.

so, I’d say either SIL is bonkers or she has another reason and this has been a convenient excuse to distance herself. The only other plausible explanation I can think of is that events were more complicated/DW’s reaction more significant than OP has said- or that the SIL thinks something else happened, perhaps. Are you sure nothing else was said or done (even accidentally) by your DW? Not saying yiu or she are lying re the events of that day

In any case, stop the babysitting but see your BIL (and nephew) if you want to independently of his wife. See your friends and family when you want- be polite if she is there- don’t let her to try to manipulate into not going to accommodate her choices. If she can’t tolerate you and your wife’s presence, then she has the choice to leave/not attend.

I do think you are being unreasonable with regards to BIL. He’s not being “pathetic”, nor is he “allowing” this situation- he just cannot force his wife to change her mind because that’s what he wants her to do. All he can do is ask her to reconsider and It does sound like he has tried. And he is right, he IS stuck in the middle at the moment. What do you want him to do- knock her out and drag her along? End his marriage?

I think you’ll have to come to terms with the fact that things are as try are and live your life as best suits you- see your friends and family when you want and leave them ti make decisions for themselves. They can attend events where they know you are going to be and remain civil, or they can chose to stay away. But don’t pander to her by not going when she demands it, don’t tell her your plans. On,y other thing I can think of is mediation- possibly with a family member or friend who she might listen to? I’m not sure that would help here, and suspect SIL would not agree to it.

LuluBlakey1 · 01/06/2023 02:23

LindorDoubleChoc · 30/05/2023 04:06

How odd. I've only read a couple of Mumsnet posts today and they both feature the incorrect spelling of heels!

OP I gave up about half way through your incredibly long post ... but there's no way on God's green earth I'd be doing childcare for someone who refuses to speak to me.

How odd indeed! 😉

crazyaboutcats · 01/06/2023 03:32

You're being bullied if you start calling it this, which is what it is, others might not enable it

Mummyoflittledragon · 01/06/2023 04:38

Idk if you’re still reading. But I agree with the comments. Step back. No more babysitting to protect your child. By doing this, you’re giving her credence that you were in the wrong.

Stop with the pandering, apologies, acting as though you were in the wrong and avoiding parties. She doesn’t want to believe her child is anything but angelic. You burst that bubble and instead of confronting it, she doubled down to such an extent she’s prepared to go nc.

She’s doing the same in nursery. It is no wonder the child is violent. He has no boundaries. And it possibly won’t end well. He won’t be little forever. Wait until he reaches his tweens and teens. Boys with no boundaries are a danger, especially to younger females.

Nanaof1 · 01/06/2023 05:07

Toomuchtrouble4me · 31/05/2023 21:33

Would love to hear Sil’s version of exactly what your wife did. This doesn’t add up, there’s two sides to every story and you wouldn’t be apologising that much unless she’d done a bit more than you’re admitting to. She shoved/hit their toddler didn’t she? Swearing? There’s more to this.

If she had hit the toddler, I doubt they would be babysitting that same child.
AS for pushing him away, I certainly hope she did.
The "toddler" is still hurting children a year later. I wonder why?

Grrrrdarling · 01/06/2023 09:47

Constantlyeyerolling · 30/05/2023 02:39

So a year ago when my DD was newborn (8 days old) we were visiting my wife’s brother and sister in law.
During the conversation my wife was cradling our daughter when her 16month old nephew toddled over to look at the baby, cue said nephew then hammerfisting our daughter hard to the top of her head and attempting to do it again. My wife, understandably in my opinion, yelled very loudly “NO,NO” and moved her nephew back away from the baby with her free hand. Nephew did not stumble or fall or was he hurt in any way but he began to cry at being told off and ran to his dad ( wife’s brother). I had not seen what had happened and her reaction made me jump, I was also quite shocked at how she yelled at nephew as she adores her nephew and I have never heard her shout at him before. I asked what the hell all the shouting was about and said there was no need to yelp out so loudly, she then angrily snapped at me stating nephew had just hit DD hard on her soft spot. I then understood why she had reacted the way she had out of panic and shock rather than any actual desire to upset nephew. She felt bad about yelling afterwards and apologised to her brother and explained why she reacted the way she did the following day.
SIL had been upstairs ant the time and came running down into the room to see what had happened. BIL explained and was telling Nephew off. Wife was consoling crying daughter and placing her in her stroller. SIL was not pleased at all by the look on her face although she did not say anything at the time but the atmosphere soured and we took it as our cue to say our goodbyes and leave.

SIL has never mentioned this incident to either of us again, mainly because since that day she has refused to even speak to us. We have heard via BIL that after we left SIL exploded stating we were not welcome in her house ever again and were to have no contact with nephew. BIL was upset by this and tried to explain why my wife over reacted and smooth things over however it has now been a year and she still refuses to budge, see sense or accept apologies.

my wife and her brother have tried to maintain there relationship for the sake of MIL and the children and eventually nephew does spend time with us, usually when SIL and BIL are stuck for babysitters and it suits them!! He stays over, comes out for play dates etc. Nephew is still very much a “hitter”, does not share or play well with others, my SIL has been called into kindergarten on numerous occasions due to kicking other children in the face, pinching and scratching. He also behaves like this towards our daughter when in our care but we are too scared scared to even tell him off for fear contact will be stopped altogether again as we love him and know he’s just learning and will grow out of it.

our issue is SIL still refuses to speak or have anything to do with my wife, she will collect Nephew from our house without speaking, if there is a family event she will refuse to attend and as BIL does not have his licence he will have to take a cab or can’t come if we try to arrange anything with just him. Family events and visits to in laws have to be structured to accommodate the rift.

prior to this we were very close, we would eat out together at least once a week, stop by each others houses regularly, days out and vacations would be taken together and thanksgiving / Christmas etc would be spent together. Their friends were ours and visa Versa, we were a very close unit. My wife and her SIL were never “best friends” but as we were so close to her brother ( he and I were friends prior to meeting my wife) and our eldest son worshiped the ground SIL walked on and she treated him like her own child we were always very grateful to have a lovely SIL.

wife and I expected this to eventually blow over when SIL eventually calmed down. There has never been a crossed word about it between SIL and my wife nor has it been discussed at all. we assumed she’d angrily shouted at BIL about it but was not angry enough to raise it with us therefore we left it between them to sort out as we are his family and they would come to a resolution.

we have tried to smooth things over with minimal fuss, offered lifts, tried to arrange 4th July and invited them both, mentioned casually that we were going out if they wanted to come along to show we’re not treating her behaviour as a big deal and want to just move on but we have been snubbed over and over again, she refuses to engage with us at all.

it’s now over a year and as our social lives are so intertwined it is now becoming beyond awkward and inconvenient to the point my wife and I are hurt and angry that she is causing this rift in the family and forcing friends to choose who to invite out. We’re also becoming increasingly angry at BIL for allowing her to behave this way and cause all this hurt and upset, that will effect our wider family and children. He just protests he’s stuck in the middle and can’t make her change her mind and that she thinks we should count ourselves lucky she now even “allows” us to see or babysit our nephew!!

we were all invited to a family cook out this weekend. BIL had called ahead to see if we were going, we said we were undecided. He then said he needed to know as SIL wanted to go but would only do so if we were not, he then actively encouraged us not to go as he really wanted to go with his SIL. Well wife began to curse and shout calling SIL stubborn and ridiculous pointing out that if she was such a terrible person why was she asked to care for nephew when it suited them when what she had done was so terrible to receive such punishment of being cut off. This ended in the phone being hung up. We did not go, they did and had a lovely time according to Social media.

we’re at the point now where we can’t deal with this anymore and feel like cutting them out completely, washing our hands of them rather than keep trying to make allowances for SIL ridiculous behaviour hoping it will blow over. We’re angry at BIL for being so pathetic and her for being a stubborn heartless b*h for allowing this to ruin our close family. We have sent very “controlled” texts explaining our position, tgat we love Nephew and Wife shouted at him in the heat of the moment and lives him dearly and basically pleading for things to go back to how they were which have not been responded to.

AIBU, what should we do! My wife is devastated it’s come to this but SIL is digging her heals in and we don’t know why! The constant rejection from reaching out hurts and is now causing us to feel anger and resentment which we’re unlikely to be able to come back from if it doesn’t change soon. We think we shut cut ties and wait for them to come to us….but what if they don’t?!

Sorry to say this but you need to stop pandering to SIL now as she is loving all the attention. She is clearly a narcissist & is in her element knowing she is causing ructions without even doing anything.
Her husband could put his foot down & tell her she needs to grow up but he is choosing not to!
Also I would stop letting the clearly violent child into your home for your child’s mental & physical well-being!
If you do continue to let said violent child into your home he abides by your house rules & you discipline him as you would your own child or he can’t come to visit. He needs some positive direction around appropriate behaviour & sadly I think you need to be that person or he can’t come over.

I would be cutting contact if this childish behaviour continues & to be honest I am surprised you’ve put up with it for this long.

Accept invites for every event without a thought for them going forwards & if anyone tries to blame you for SIL not coming remind them you have no issue with her, she is free to do as she pleases & her choosing not to come is purely a childish act that you won’t acknowledge or engage with anymore as there is nothing more you can do or say to fix whatever her issue is.

Minniliscious · 01/06/2023 12:24

So the OP posted an essay a week ago and never came back? Very odd and quite rude.

ZeroFuches · 01/06/2023 14:01

Minniliscious · 01/06/2023 12:24

So the OP posted an essay a week ago and never came back? Very odd and quite rude.

Quite. I'd imagine the SIL feels the same way.

pictoosh · 01/06/2023 17:27

It's not rude to not return to a thread.

PeachyPeachTrees · 01/06/2023 18:53

Everyone in MN is in agreement.
No more babysitting Nephew.
No more lifts or favours for them.
Go to ALL family and friends events. Do not miss out to please this awful woman.

You have tried and been nice for a whole year and you've got nothing to apologise for. Get on with enjoying your life...without her.

DunkingMyDonuts · 01/06/2023 23:04

Minniliscious · 01/06/2023 12:24

So the OP posted an essay a week ago and never came back? Very odd and quite rude.

A week?? I know times flies as you get older... but it was only yesterday she posted!