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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To make my complaint about this teacher more formal

373 replies

NotTonightDeidre · 24/05/2023 19:34

DS, 15, Y10 is really disliked by his maths teacher. It's quite obvious in the way he's treated in class (only a handful of negatives overall this year, mainly from her, not a single positive award point from her) and by how she speaks about him (on the phone/parents evening).

Don't get me wrong, I'm under no illusion that DS can be an arrogant, attitude filled, gobshite (he's 15, so it comes with the territory) but on the whole he tends to save the worst of the attitude for home.

He's a bright kid, top sets across the board & is quite often top of his classes.

I had a meeting earlier in the year with the maths teacher & DS' head of year to discuss the behaviour - it was things like chatting/turning around in class/fiddling with/tapping pens.... all low level disruption but I agree, it needs to be addressed. I explained that DS thrives on praise (I hate it, but the school system created that monster) & that she'd get a far better response if she could acknowledge when he's doing well/catch him being good. I also spoke to DS & told him that he needed to sort his self out & put the effort in. As far as I'm aware, he did for a while - I was seeing fewer negatives coming through but still no positive recognition.

Fast forward a month or two & the behaviour is kicking in again. DS feels unsupported in class, & has reached a point where he's saying "what's the point being good if she doesn't even notice".

Now, DH thinks rather than have another discussion we should put our concerns in writing so they have to be addressed. I think he's overreacting a little but then I've also seen DS go from a child who loved maths to one who doesn't even want to go to the lessons. He's even asked to get moved down a set so he can have a different teacher (and it's not because he's struggling, he's been entered for further maths & statistics alongside his regular maths GCSEs).

Would appreciate thoughts from all angles.

OP posts:
ioveelephants · 25/05/2023 12:56

People on here are nuts!

My daughters school has the same points system and also thrives on praise it really encourages her to get more involved as she is quite shy. I did notice though no matter what, some teachers never give points.
Even on the school report you notice 1 or 2 teachers that will never give full marks and find something negative to say and it's usually the same ones that don't use the point's system. It's such a shame really.

SusieSussex · 25/05/2023 13:00

ioveelephants · 25/05/2023 12:56

People on here are nuts!

My daughters school has the same points system and also thrives on praise it really encourages her to get more involved as she is quite shy. I did notice though no matter what, some teachers never give points.
Even on the school report you notice 1 or 2 teachers that will never give full marks and find something negative to say and it's usually the same ones that don't use the point's system. It's such a shame really.

No, it's nuts to think a 15 year old shouldn't be expected to not be disruptive while studying for GCSEs without merits.

SunnySaturdayMorning · 25/05/2023 13:01

It’s a good thing she didn’t pick him to go because who wants a disruptive child there? That’s not a good representation of the school no matter how bright you are.

Your parenting is to blame here no matter how much you want to blame the school
reward system.

HarrietJet · 25/05/2023 13:09

ioveelephants · 25/05/2023 12:56

People on here are nuts!

My daughters school has the same points system and also thrives on praise it really encourages her to get more involved as she is quite shy. I did notice though no matter what, some teachers never give points.
Even on the school report you notice 1 or 2 teachers that will never give full marks and find something negative to say and it's usually the same ones that don't use the point's system. It's such a shame really.

Why exactly are "people on here nuts"? Very peculiar thing to say?
If your daughter can't work to the best of her ability without getting brownie points in return, she'll be in trouble when she gets to Uni / the workplace.

CSIblonde · 25/05/2023 13:15

As an ex teacher , at his age he should know to buckle down in lessons & the reasons why ( exam success, future life plans regarding college or university). If his other classes are going fine maybe it's just a personality clash with the teacher. Some children do take an instant dislike, for no reason. As a student teacher on teaching practice , I was told one child really disliked me so much that her parents mentioned it. I was a bit confused , as she was quiet & hard working & i had no one to one interactions with her that I could recall, (a 3 weeks teaching practice , doing 70% of the lessons) but their teacher reassured me all feedback from the other children was really positive & not to worry. You say he's intelligent & he's getting on & doing it in other lessons, so he can do it in maths too. At comprehensive age, its not like primary level where lots of verbal praise & carrot & stick is required & used to modify behaviour.

thirdfiddle · 26/05/2023 09:07

If your daughter can't work to the best of her ability without getting brownie points in return, she'll be in trouble when she gets to Uni / the workplace.

I don't think that's fair. Where the system is there are brownie points, and a particular person doesn't give you any but others do, you do naturally think I'm not good at that bit/not appreciated by that person. Unless you twig that that person just doesn't use the system. Then you are more likely to think that person is just a bit of a meanie.

My professional office workplace has lots of different brownie points systems. Even where there's nothing formal, there's 'well done, good work on x' at the end of a project, which is just normal polite human interaction and generates good will. Thank you Johnny, that was a much better lesson, keep it up next week. Humans thrive on positive feedback.

Dishwashersaurous · 26/05/2023 09:13

There is a difference between a child being neutral and never getting any positive comments or points.

And a child who does negative things and then doesn't get any positive comments or points.

If it is the former, which does happen particularly in primary school, then it is unfair. The neutral child who gets ignored.

If it is the later, the child who does some stuff wrong and some stuff right. Them by secondary school it is fair that they don't get acknowledgement for the good stuff until the bad stuff stops. And if the bad stuff has been going on for a while then it will need to stop for a decent amount of time until the good stuff is acknowledged

Newmumatlast · 26/05/2023 09:16

NotTonightDeidre · 24/05/2023 21:59

Where have I said he's not interested in learning?
It was actually one of the things he said to me today - that it wasn't as if he doesn’t want to learn.
It's amazing how people only read what they want to read.

Where have I said that I haven't told him he needs to take responsibility for himself?! I engage with & support school.

OP, I agree people's sometimes only read what they want to on AIBU. There are a lot of people who, because the premise of the thread is to assess reasonableness, seem to go into it seeking out unreasonableness even when it isn't there.

FarmGirl78 · 26/05/2023 10:16

The classmates who behave well ALL THE TIME, listen, don't mess about, don't throw things, don't disrupt classes - those kids won't be praised continuously for good behaviour. Being decent is the expected minimum.

Many many years ago a boy who was an absolute ARSE at high school was given the afternoon off lessons to help decorate the Christmas tree in the school hall to motivate him. The way it was planned was that I should have been allowed/allocated to do it (no idea why) but he got my place and I remember seething about it, because I'd won that treat and the ARSE of a lad who had spent all year disrupting my GCSE computing class and messing up a load of my coursework got to do it instead. That's 30 odd years ago and I'm still feeling the injustice of it.

Your son by your own admissions is a knob, why on earth should he be praised for making table scrap efforts while he's generally making other kids learning experiences harder?

Explain to your Son that good behaviour is the expected minimum and if he wants to get anywhere in life being any sort of knobhead will overshadow anything else.

Nanny0gg · 26/05/2023 10:37

NotTonightDeidre · 24/05/2023 19:48

Why did I bother asking here? I said "can be" I also said he tends to save it for home. As in, I'm not a parent that thinks mu child is an angel who can do no wrong.

He doesn't have an issue in other lessons, he's actually a pretty good student. He's generally well liked by staff & students.

The basis of my complaint is that she consistently singles him out for negative reasons & never acknowledges the positives so he doesn't feel valued.

How would you like your appraisal at work to focus only on the negatives? Bollocks to the fact you landed a major contract - your appraisal is just all the things your boss dislikes you doing.

I'm with you. My DGC gets on really well with the HOD who begged for her to go in top set and the teacher..thoroughly dislikes her. But to get top grades that's where she has to be. Teachers can be at fault and sometimes their attitude towards pupils needs addressing. Why do we expect impeccable behaviour from them and not staff?

noblegiraffe · 26/05/2023 10:51

What’s the bad behaviour from the teacher? As far as I can see she sanctions him when he pisses about, doesn’t sanction him when he doesn’t. He doesn’t like her because she tells him off when he pisses about but 🤷‍♀️

OopsAnotherOne · 26/05/2023 12:15

With the best will in the world OP, the teacher won't praise a 15 year old student for doing the bare minimum (not disrupting the lesson, not disrupting other students etc). This is the baseline behaviour expected of all students and not something deserving of specific praise - by default he is required to listen and concentrate in lessons, not interrupt or disrupt the class, not to turn around, tap his pen or otherwise fidget creating a disturbance and to complete the work to the best standard he can. None of this is worthy of praise in a class full of 15 year old top set students, nor should praise be expected for any of these basic requirements.

Tolerance from his teacher and his fellow students will continue to decline, especially as GCSEs loom in the horizon, unless his behaviour improves completely and consistently. He has shown in his other lessons that he is capable of behaving so he is choosing to disrupt the math lessons and it will grate on everyone else in the class as they will know it's his choice to disrupt their education.

He needs to realise that sometimes if you continuously act in an irritating and disruptive manner, you're not going to make friends. People aren't going to like him and even if he bucks his ideas up and stops his disruption, that still doesn't deserve praise it just allows the teacher to get on and teach the class. The teacher doesn't have to like him, especially if he has shown continuous disrespect in her lessons which has disrupted the class repeatedly, why should she like him? It is not her job to like him, she is there to teach him math. If he chooses to not be taught, that's his decision. If he is incapable of behaving as expected without constant praise for doing so, it sounds as if top set isn't for him. Perhaps, if he is doing well in every other subject, home education for just the math curriculum can be taken over by yourself?

The main issue is that students can't be praised for everything they do which isn't disruptive, that would be impossible as it would take too much time and shouldn't be necessary, "well done Amy, Katie, Chloe, Ben for doing your work, thank you Adam, Tom, Lisa, Jack, Sarah for not talking to others, well done Matthew and Fred for listening to me, thank you Jenny, Megan, Sam, Andrew and Mark for not tapping your pens, well done Caleb, John, Florence, Edward, Kit, Stu and Melissa for facing the front of the class" etc, maybe when they were in year 2 but as 15 year olds in top set, a high standard of behaviour is a given. The teacher also should not have to treat your son differently and praise him for things the other students don't get praised for (thus singling him out). there should be no requirement for her to pander to him and treat him differently than the students who behave as they should.

If your son expects praise for the bare minimum and you enable this expectation, college/university/the workplace will hit him like a lead balloon. People won't pander to him like you expect his teacher to, people won't tolerate disruption and won't praise anything that's expected as bare minimum. A failed A-Level or failed degree, a disciplinary meeting, a frustrated boss who does not want to pat your head on the son every time he does something he's paid to do - he's being set up to fail. Support the teacher, tell your son to get his act together and work because he needs to learn not because he wants praise for it. Tell him that if he feels his teacher doesn't like him he's probably right and it's because she is most likely fed up and so if he wants to win her affections back, he needs to push himself, work as hard as he can, behave as he should without fail for the rest of the time he's in school, submit work above and beyond the standard expected and absolutely stop all disruptive behaviour going forward. If he chooses not to do this, because it is a choice, the consequences which follow are a natural lesson for him and you can at least say you've done your bit.

PostItInABook · 26/05/2023 13:10

I don’t think some people understand there are many different types of motivations involved in learning. Some are intrinsic and some are extrinsic…..most have a combination of both. Receiving praise/external recognition is an extrinsic motivator. If you want to motivate people who have this driver then give them the damn praise, whilst helping them to recognise and work on developing more intrinsic motivators. He is 15 and still learning how to learn. His behaviour is a symptom of his learning needs not being met and is easily fixable by giving him even some basic recognition.

thirdfiddle · 26/05/2023 17:37

I don't think many people are motivated to stay on track with a change of long established bad habits with zero positive reinforcement. I know I'm not. I want to get more exercise, I join a class or something to have the reinforcement of other people's encouragement. I could perfectly well do the exercises in my living room, but that's hard to sustain.

VickyEadieofThigh · 26/05/2023 17:55

cansu · 24/05/2023 19:46

The point of behaving himself is so that he can learn and more importantly so can the rest of the class. Chatting, answering back, being arrogant and not doing what he is asked is the problem. He doesn't get a prize for occasionally behaving in a normal fashion.

He is the problem. He is not 5. You need to start backing the teacher rather than help your son look for excuses for his behaviour.

This. He's old enough to behave himself in class. Tell him to behave.

Lostinalibrary · 26/05/2023 18:00

I have experience of this from the teachers POV. Parents kicked off merry hell when their children started in my class. That’s because I have high expectations of every student, I want them to achieve their best. I do not put up with children disrupting the learning of others in my class. Standards are higher, results are higher and the children who are told by parents they “can’t do it because of x diagnosis” smash through those glass ceilings. All whilst building solid relationships.

The only parents who never come around and say “it must be that one teacher” enable. No two ways. They go out of their way to act up in lessons because they know their parents will be straight onto the head/me to complain I’m picking. Thankfully the head bats it right back. However, these children become enabled by the parents behaviour; she must hate you, yadda, yadda. Therefore, it gets progressively worse and their progress is impacted because they don’t want to learn and then it impacts the whole class. Never their fault.

BodyKeepingScore · 26/05/2023 18:07

Your son sounds disrespectful and entitled. I'd work on that if I were you and ask myself why I minimise his poor behaviour

Atnilpoe · 26/05/2023 19:06

One of my sons had a similar issue last year when he was in year 10 as well. He’s the kind of lad teachers rave about being “a delight” and a pleasure to teach. But he had a real problem with one teacher always being on his case. I spoke to him about it, he initially claimed it was all the teacher, but when I drilled down into it, DS was being a low level twat. He didn’t want to hear it to start with, but I read him the riot act, and pointed out it might not be that fun teaching him if he was chatting etc

I told him to go to his teacher, apologise and then pull his bloody finger out. He did. And a few days the teacher called me, said thank you for being supportive and said he’d been much better. It solved the issue. This year, no problems with this teacher. DS needed to grow up and take some responsibility. Sounds like your DS might need to learn this lesson too.

Noodledoodledoo · 26/05/2023 21:35

Is he beginning to struggle, and doesn't like not being the big fish. I have taight students like this, start to muck about as they want to hide the fact they are beginning to hit the point that a little bit more effort, its not as easy as they have always made it out to be. The request to move to the next set down maybe his way of saying this without losing face.

spirit20 · 26/05/2023 22:27

You need to grow up and tell your son to do too.

By all means, submit the 'formal' complaint about how you don't like it when the mean maths teacher tells your precious son to cop himself on and stop thinking he's entitled to disturb the learning of everyone else in the class. It will give everyone in the school a good laugh. Do you actually think it would be taken seriously?

Valeriekat · 27/05/2023 21:56

TheCrystalPalace · 24/05/2023 22:11

Is this some kind of joke?
The kid's 15!!

Irony? No surely not.

Crazycrazylady · 27/05/2023 23:42

Honestly op. Have you thought about what you would put in your 'complaint' that's actually factual which is what they will look for to give it any consideration.

  1. She doesn't praise him enough.
2 she focuses on his negative behaviour too much. 3 she speaks about him with disdain . ( very subjective)

You're going to need factual examples to be taken seriously and you don't appear to have any?

Disolusionedteacher · 28/05/2023 00:46

How ridiculous! You are enabling him by excusing his behaviour. I am a teacher and the vast majority of 15 year olds are decent and behave, it is definitely not part of the territory for them to be a dick and well done to the teacher for calling your son out for his poor behaviour. Just because the other teachers aren’t it doesn’t mean he’s behaving in their lessons either. Many teachers are scared of the confrontation. It baffles me that you are seriously considering complaining to the school rather than dealing with the actual issue which is your son’s poor behaviour. What has happened to society? If a teacher had made a comment like that about my DC I would have been mortified and there would have been serious consequences for them. 🙄

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