To make my complaint about this teacher more formal

[NotTonightDeidre]

DS, 15, Y10 is really disliked by his maths teacher. It's quite obvious in the way he's treated in class (only a handful of negatives overall this year, mainly from her, not a single positive award point from her) and by how she speaks about him (on the phone/parents evening).

Don't get me wrong, I'm under no illusion that DS can be an arrogant, attitude filled, gobshite (he's 15, so it comes with the territory) but on the whole he tends to save the worst of the attitude for home.

He's a bright kid, top sets across the board & is quite often top of his classes.

I had a meeting earlier in the year with the maths teacher & DS' head of year to discuss the behaviour - it was things like chatting/turning around in class/fiddling with/tapping pens.... all low level disruption but I agree, it needs to be addressed. I explained that DS thrives on praise (I hate it, but the school system created that monster) & that she'd get a far better response if she could acknowledge when he's doing well/catch him being good. I also spoke to DS & told him that he needed to sort his self out & put the effort in. As far as I'm aware, he did for a while - I was seeing fewer negatives coming through but still no positive recognition.

Fast forward a month or two & the behaviour is kicking in again. DS feels unsupported in class, & has reached a point where he's saying "what's the point being good if she doesn't even notice".

Now, DH thinks rather than have another discussion we should put our concerns in writing so they have to be addressed. I think he's overreacting a little but then I've also seen DS go from a child who loved maths to one who doesn't even want to go to the lessons. He's even asked to get moved down a set so he can have a different teacher (and it's not because he's struggling, he's been entered for further maths & statistics alongside his regular maths GCSEs).

Would appreciate thoughts from all angles.

I would explain to your DS that he needs to ensure that his behaviour and effort are perfect in this teacher's lessons; give her no room to criticise. If the teacher still has negative things to say about your son, then would be the time to think about making any complaint to the school, but until your DS is giving the teacher no reason to be negative to/about him, then I totally understand why she continues to do so!

She probably feels disdain for your child because he is interrupting the kids who actually WANT to learn. He isn’t the only one who is entitled to an education, no matter how bloody brilliant he is. By interrupting and dicking around he is showing utter disrespect for her and the rest of the class. If he’s so smart then he can go and teach himself using online class tools and let her get on with her job.

I would be more upset for the students who are trying to work (and learn) whose education is being disrupted by your son. By all means get him moved (maybe to a class where they are not interested in learning anything.)

"What's the point of being good if she doesn't notice?"

Have we really got to that stage?! She shouldn't have to notice. Good should be the default. Over and above gets comments/praise, dicking around gets phonecalls home and meetings.

I think the problem is your son has low self worth and is sensitive to her opinion of him. And his bad behaviour is a cover for that. There's nothing wrong with thriving on praise , I think some kids need it, but the sensitivity to criticism and fragile sense of self can mean he becomes depressed if not getting positive feedback?

I'm not sure what will help exactly but learning that sometimes people just don't get us, we don't always get our needs and wants catered to?

A 15 year old who ‘needs praise to behave well’ is a 15 year old who’s been mollycoddled by his parent / s rather than a well adjusted resilient teen.

Where have I said he's not interested in learning?
It was actually one of the things he said to me today - that it wasn't as if he doesn’t want to learn.
It's amazing how people only read what they want to read.

Where have I said that I haven't told him he needs to take responsibility for himself?! I engage with & support school.

This is what jumped out at me. His self esteem needs some work I think. That he doesn't have to be liked by everyone to realise he can make a contribution.

This 100%. Your DS is being a bit of a gobshite by your own admission. That means he's treating his maths teacher with no respect, making her job harder, and disrupting learning for other people. He's not 5, he doesn't deserve an endless tap of positivity to keep him going. Yet you genuinely believe this deserves a written complaint about the teacher - because she isn't indulging him and patting him on the head in between the times he's being an A hole. Honestly OP!

Why don’t you do a sticker chart for him at home and buy him a treat for every week that you haven’t heard from his teacher?

I definitely wasn't mollycoddled. Abusive and neglectful parenting, but I would feel discouraged and frustrated if I didn't get the approval of those around me as a teenager. Very thin skinned and sensitive to criticism. I would say I wasn't resilient , I agree there. But not sure it's always mollycoddling. And some children are sensitive.

Teacher here. Amen to this! ⬆️👏

I was about to write this.

He does need to stop the bad behaviour though . That isn't helping his teacher want to praise hi m or help him much. It could be teacher is just a cowbag, but it could be she just fed up and frustrated too . Also his disruptive behaviour is not good for others in the class. Some of the other kids may not be as bright as him it may be they need a quiet environment to concentrate.

Why should he be praised for doing the basics of what he should be expected to do? There will be plenty of other kids in that class who will be following behaviour expectations and being respectful and they won't get any special praise. It's very worrying that your son feels it is ok to be disruptive of he doesn't get the attention he feels so entitled to at 15.

I actually think he urgently needs to work on self discipline and motivation. As he gets older he is going to be expected to work more independently and with greater self control. Considering how able he is, he most likely will go to university, what's he going to do there?

I think it's very unfair to blame this all on the teacher. Your son is a teenager and accountable for his own behavior. I would try to get to the root of why he is so dependent on praise to meet the bare minimum expectations. Then if he actually is meeting behaviour expectations, respecting the teacher and his classmates, partaking in his learning and completing activities to his best ability and the teacher still gives hard time, you may have reason to have a discussion with teacher.

Agreed.

She probably needs to be reminded that he needs praise to behave well

This kid will get a shock to the system out in the real world.

I’m a teacher and this behaviour, the constant low level disruption, is far harder to deal with than most people realise. If he has children with additional needs or sensory difficulties in his class, for instance, the pen tapping etc could be making them incredibly distressed!

Also, he’s 15! “Thrives on praise” is cute when they are 5 but in less than a years time he could be in full time work. Are you going to ask his boss to give him a sticker?!

Tell him to behave, sit quietly, and stop being a disruptive PITA!

Best thing he could do is go to the teacher cap in hand and apologise for dicking about in class, and ask for a fresh start. He could suggest ways that his concentration might improve- a desk to himself, moving away from his friends.

He needs to do it by himself and take some responsibility. I actually had to do similar when I was an arsehole mucking about in history class at a similar age, and it's a lesson that's stuck with me.

A reminder that he won't always be chosen to do everything, that he's not a special shiny star amongst a sea of plebs and that his shit, in fact, does stink might not be a bad thing as well.

Maybe a summer job might help knock some edges off him and give him a wider idea of where he

If nothing else, it might be a good early lesson in why you don't piss off people who make the decisions/can shape your future! Better to be passed over for a maths competition at 15 than a bonus or promotion in your 30s!

Is this some kind of joke?
The kid's 15!!

Why is there a retention issue in schools resulting in classes of 60, non specialist teachers, cover lessons and so on?
Well, just imagine being the head of maths being referred to on this thread. A long standing professional. An older woman. Who has had the temerity to insist on decent and attentive behaviour in her class.
Now she is facing the utterly ridiculous time wasting nightmare of yet more dealings with this entitled and disruptive child and his parents. Responding to emails or phone calls. Meetings at the end of an already long and stressful day to sit listening to this tripe about praising a kid for picking up his pen and doing the work.
Not only has she had to put up with poor and rude behaviour, she is now being doubly punished by having her time wasted and her professionalism called into question.
THIS is the absolute mind melting nonsense that is making teachers quit left right and centre.
All your child needs to do is behave

Where have I said that I haven't told him he needs to take responsibility for himself?!

It's the bit where your kid is dicking around in class and you want to make a formal complaint about the teacher.

What is also occurring to me is that he is clearly used to being showered with praise for being clever in other subjects. In top set GCSE maths, they're all clever. And generally well-behaved. If he wants to be praised and picked for competitions, he needs to be better than the other top set kids, which is probably a higher standard of competition than he is used to.

I had a particularly arrogant kid move to top set in Y10. He started kicking off in one of his first lessons with me, talking about being in top set and superior to the kids he left behind etc. One of the other kids turned to him and just said 'We're all in top set here', which took the wind out of his sails somewhat.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

The low-level talking out of turn, pen-tapping or clicking (like bloody Boris played by Alan Cumming in Goldeneye) and the turning around...all these microaggressions stop the bloody woman from teaching and your son's peers from learning.

I cannot fathom how you are a teacher and not shooting your son first, asking questions later. Most of us in the profession do that, precisely because we do get it. The personality clash can exist but very seldom - you have too many to teach and too much to do to harbour a grudge, so every day is a clean slate. A halo effect or negative halo effect is possible if you aren't consistent but as RuPaul says - there's no such thing as a bad edit - in other words, if he isn't playing up at all, then he won't get debit points put on.

Being calm and purposeful isn't a praise point in itself when it is the expectation. I agree stars, stamps and stickers still work at 15 - some of them love them still, it always makes me laugh - but Learning how to learn/learning for learning's sake really should be taught and applied. We molly coddle them, placate and spoon feed them too much and they won't become independent, responsible learners, will they?

I was always in top sets, and often top of the top set in a variety of subjects. I did it because I enjoyed learning. I didn’t feel the need to dick about or disrupt others, nor act the arrogant gobshite. I didn’t really care if a teacher liked me or not - it wasn’t personal, they were my teachers and were giving me stuff to learn, for which I was very grateful.

But hey, I was a girl …

Whether or not there’s a “personality clash” if your DS likes and wants to learn, he’ll do it because he wants to learn, not for external gratification and praise. He’ll do it for himself.

Urgh I bloody hate it when kids want praise for ‘being good’, when it’s actually praise for ‘doing what everyone else is doing and not misbehaving’. The teacher can’t praise every child simply for meeting expectations, and it wouldn’t be fair on those children who always behave to
praise those who usually don’t.

What does your child actually feel that he is doing to deserve praise? Maybe your child could go on some sort of report to this particular teacher, so they can tick off some targets at the end of the lesson, and your child can feel like their ‘good behaviour’ is being acknowledged.

OP I think you’ve given a balanced view of your DS’ behaviour to a point, but still think YABU.

The lesson here is one of resilience. There will be people in life who you just don’t gel with and they’re not all going to sing your praises when you do something good, because good is ‘table stakes’ and what’s expected all the time. Anything less will be called out and there are consequences. Your DS is feeling the consequences, maybe she felt despite his capability his behaviour couldn’t be trusted in an outer school competition? Maybe others with less natural capability but who demonstrated the right work ethic are who she wants to reward.

It could be personality but the reality is he needs to suck it up either way. Her style may not play to DS’ need for acknowledgement so how’s he going to change it up?

There is no ‘complaint’, as the teacher has done nothing wrong. Is it possible he could be more engaged if she played the ‘didn’t you do well game’, sure, but maybe she doesn’t subscribe to that reward model and calls it how she sees it day in day out.