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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Parent & Child -v- Disabled Parking Bays?

493 replies

Lambstails · 24/05/2023 15:31

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

OP posts:
Flossflower · 24/05/2023 17:28

Supermarkets go out of their way to attract families with young children. They hope they will become long term loyal shoppers and spend lots of money at the shop. As soon as you get older or disabled they are not interested in you as your spending power has usually gone down This is why there are so many P &C parking spaces.
I think the woman who spoke to you was out of order.

Turfwars · 24/05/2023 17:29

I use P&C bays if I'm with my elderly mother - she's not technically disabled, but does have mobility issues and often needs to swing the door wide to get out.

She did ask once if it was ok for us to park there but I just told her that we ARE a parent and child, and therefore fine to use the space Grin I don't use them on my own and would never dream of parking in a badge bay but P&C spaces are not legally enforcable and aimed at parents juggling buggies and car seats or the like, not some dick with a couple of 12yo's in the back.

SouthCountryGirl · 24/05/2023 17:30

"The one with the teenagers should not be using the P & C as they don’t need a pushchair. If, at their age they need support then they would have a disabled badge."

And if they were waiting for their BB to be assessed? Do they not need to be nearer the door / a wider space until then?

red78hot · 24/05/2023 17:31

I can't stand it when in my local sainsburys older people will park in the p&c bays because they do not have a disabled badge so if the park in the p&c bays opposite the disabled bays because they won't get a fine there!
BUT if I saw disabled person using the p&c bays it wouldn't bother me, I'd rather them than people who just want a bit more space!
The Asda store round the corner has a sign stating a £70 fine for parking in the p&c bays.

TheGoogleMum · 24/05/2023 17:31

This comes up every so often on here and it's usually petty unanimous that BB can park in P&C but not the other way around!
Those women were very rude. Also am I understanding there were other P&C spaces so it isn't like anyone was inconvenienced anyway?

ReggieCat · 24/05/2023 17:31

I have discovered after being in a wheelchair for the last 3 years that people in general resent us disabled bods and think any rights we have take away from theirs. They either ignore us or become hostile.

Americano75 · 24/05/2023 17:32

Imagine being the sort of cunt who harasses a disabled person over a parking space. It must be hell inside their heads.

ArdeteiMasazxu · 24/05/2023 17:33

I think it's totally fine for a BB holder to use a P&C space if all the BB spaces are full. To me this seems obvious as a parent tackling how to park when all the P&C spaces are full has a LOT more options than a disabled person who can't park.

The people who berated you were selfish and entitled. There is sadly no shortage of selfish and entitled people in the world. Arguing with them and trying to justify yourself is not going to get anywhere. Smile warmly and say that they are very welcome to liaise with the shop about their insufficient provision of spaces for people who need them.

Disabled spaces are a statutory duty that must be provided, P&C spaces are not, they are a courtesy that shops choose to offer and have no obligation to. I noticed with amusement that places like Legoland and other family attractions have no P&C spaces. They just have a normal car park (with some BB spaces) because pretty much every single car there is a P&C car but yet somehow the occupants of every single car find a way to cope with a normal-width space.

They do not lose that ability when in a supermarket car park.

AliceMcK · 24/05/2023 17:33

As a parent who uses P&C spaces I agree with you.

I took my 5yo to the hospital last week, the last p&c space was taken by 2 big burley guys who definitely didn’t have any disabilities visible or hidden, there was no blue badge on the car, this really pisses me off but if I saw someone with a blue badge it wouldn’t bother me.

Im happy to walk further to get somewhere as long as I can get a space big enough to load kids in and out of the car and have a safe route to where I’m going, which is what P&C parks are for. I honestly don’t understand why disabled spaces are further away from the entrance, like my local Aldi. Same with Tescos, it’s great as in there are loads of both spaces, massive rows of them, but surely in stead of a whole row of each, the first half closest the entrance should be disabled spaces and the second half P&C spaces.

People with just teens or older kids should not be using them, mine are getting older now and are aware not to run off etc and I’m slowly phasing out using P&C every time. If I’ve got my just my 9 & 11 yo I wouldn’t even use a P&C park.

Zebedee55 · 24/05/2023 17:35

Rainyrunway · 24/05/2023 17:01

And can we stop with the "being a parent is a lifestyle choice"? I agree if you need the P and C because of a disability, then take it, but being a parent isn't a "lifestyle choice" for a lot of people!!

Isn't it? Surely women, (other than a very few exceptions), however they are inseminated, choose to have a child?

I've been around disability for years and I have never found anyone that chose to be disabled.

We deal with it - but we didn't choose it.

To be honest, when my kids were small (decades ago), all this didn't arise. We couldn't afford a second car, so it was buses all the way.

Either way, disability trumps being a parent where parking bays are concerned.

KnackeredAF · 24/05/2023 17:35

Parent of 7 month old, daughter of long term wheelchair/mobility scooter user.

I wouldn’t be bothered if I saw you use a P&C space. More often than not I see completely able people (no BB) parking in the P&C spaces which pisses me off.

P&C for me could be on the far side of the car park for all I care - I just need to be able to open my car doors far enough to get the baby/seat in and out, which is often impossible in the “normal” parking.

I’d never dream of using a BB space if there were no P&C free. The spaces are wider and closer to keep BB holders safe and allow them to get in and out of their vehicle with their necessary aids. Children are accompanied by adults, who should be able to safely convey them to a shop, regardless of the distance from car to entrance!

Sirzy · 24/05/2023 17:36

Two very important points for people to remember

Not all disabilities are visible

The bar for a blue badge is very high so many people who need to extra space and proximity are unable to get one.

MeridianB · 24/05/2023 17:36

I’m sorry you’ve been really unlucky twice. It wouldn’t ever occur to most people to behave this way. Please don’t feel you did anything wrong. 🌷

DappledThings · 24/05/2023 17:37

I think it's totally fine for a BB holder to use a P&C space if all the BB spaces are full.
It's totally fine for a BB holder to use a P&C space at any time, whether the BB spaces are full or not. It's also fine for anyone with a need to to use them regardless of their BB status

WonderingWanda · 24/05/2023 17:37

They are entitled twats op and you should ignore them. You have a blue badge and it is not there job yo judge if you need this, they don't give them out for nothing.

I am a parent, although my children are far too old to need me to use parent bays now. I also have a severely disabled relative. I would never begrudge a disabled driver having a space near to the store.

JustBeKindItsEasy · 24/05/2023 17:38

Flossflower · 24/05/2023 17:28

Supermarkets go out of their way to attract families with young children. They hope they will become long term loyal shoppers and spend lots of money at the shop. As soon as you get older or disabled they are not interested in you as your spending power has usually gone down This is why there are so many P &C parking spaces.
I think the woman who spoke to you was out of order.

That’s not entirely true.
Supermarkets and all shops and public parking in towns have to adhere to parking requirements as part of the equalities act, parking standards and partly building regs.
The number of spaces for the disabled will be calculated based on the total number of parking spaces being provided as a %. The number then can go up based on the area and whether there is a high proportion of elderly. London supermarkets for example will have less Dis Parking than Cornwall.

P& C spaces are not regulated so can be any number but Shops will do their own risk assessments re location. Again the number will be based on the area.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 24/05/2023 17:42

Wenfy · 24/05/2023 15:40

P&C spaces are curtesy spaces only. Anyone can use them and most supermarkets advised disabled people with / without BB to use them. If I were you I would make a complaint to the shop, say the last two times you were harassed by people for using P&C spaces and could someone please put some verbiage up to clarify who should / shouldn’t be using them. When I complained similarly to our local waitrose the manager seemingly got permission, overnight, to move all the P&C spaces to the very back of the carpark. And instantly it seemed the lazy bitches who couldn’t carry their pfps without a p&c space suddenly managed just fine in a normal one lol. Our local costco only has no P&C spaces now - they said priority is and will always be disabled spacesZ

This is so true, many are lazy when using P n C places. In my local Tesco there are some split into two groups. One at the front which is always full and one at the back which is always empty. The local facebook group is always full of rants over people using them and I always point out the ones at the back are always empty but people just need to use their legs and walk a bit further. I was then told they help protect babies from the elements! ha ha! I said so do coats. P n C spaces create entitled attitudes in many people.

DappledThings · 24/05/2023 17:43

Rainyrunway · 24/05/2023 17:01

And can we stop with the "being a parent is a lifestyle choice"? I agree if you need the P and C because of a disability, then take it, but being a parent isn't a "lifestyle choice" for a lot of people!!

What is it then? I had children because I wanted them. It is a choice I made for my lifestyle. I don't know anyone who was forced to have children. Of course there are sadly women who are forced into childbearing but for the vast majority of us it is a choice.

Newnamenewname109870 · 24/05/2023 17:45

I’m pretty sure P&C is not legally enforceable. I say this and I have a child. Honestly you should have parked there and she was a horrible woman.

TrashyPanda · 24/05/2023 17:46

the P&C bay signs actually state on their for people with children under 12yrs and for blue badge holders

the age needs to be dropped drastically.
I can see how P&C spaces are useful for those with babies/toddlers/young children. But what is their purpose with a 10 year old? If these older children require a space for reasons of disability (including ND) then they should be entitled to a BB.

Matildahoney · 24/05/2023 17:46

P & C spaces are there as a helpful tool. Disabled are a necessity & BB holders should ALWAYS take priority. Children are a choice, disabilities are not. You're 100% not in the wrong, tell them next time you'll swap your disability with them & see how they get on!

ForeverFailing · 24/05/2023 17:46

I think you are unreasonable taking a P&C space but only because in my area the P&C parking are like gold dust.
There is nothing worse than someone taking one up when the don’t have a child. They are there for a reason, to enable parents to manoeuvre prams/trolleys with a small baby/child.
Use the blue badge section, if there are no spaces then either wait or find a normal space.

TrashyPanda · 24/05/2023 17:48

Sirzy · 24/05/2023 17:36

Two very important points for people to remember

Not all disabilities are visible

The bar for a blue badge is very high so many people who need to extra space and proximity are unable to get one.

Totally agree.

those who need BB should be able to get them without any fuss.

Saz12 · 24/05/2023 17:48

If you genuinely need the extra space or to be near the entrance then use the P&C spots.

If you just feel youd prefer to use one - eg you're lazy, youre shoes are hurting, you don't t want to get your hair wet, you cant park properly, etc then dont use them. Simple.

ApplesandOrangesandPears · 24/05/2023 17:48

Of course YANBU - there is an issue with spaces being too small therefore making parent and child spaces necessary for some cars/car seats but as long as there is a clear path to the shop, through the middle of the car park then walking further shouldn't be an issue for most mothers (unless possibly they've just had a c-section I suppose) but for the most part I think parent and child spaces should be located at the back and sides of the car park, whereas disabled should be closed to the entrance. Or just make normal parking spaces wider in general so there's no need for parent and child spaces anyway!

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