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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Parent & Child -v- Disabled Parking Bays?

493 replies

Lambstails · 24/05/2023 15:31

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

OP posts:
Tandora · 29/05/2023 17:58

DappledThings · 29/05/2023 17:23

Nope, that's not the logical outcome at all. And I never said choices shouldn't come with rights. Having children is a choice, being in a lawfully recognised relationship, whether marriage or a civil partnership comes with rights. Still a choice to enter into those states.

Being a parent is a choice that brings with it some rights and some preferential treatment. Like parental leave and special parking spaces. But the parking spaces bit is optional preferential treatment not a right.

But ultimately we are never going to agree. You think your deep biological urge to procreate makes it deeper an experience than the phrase lifestyle choice implies and are offended by it. That's another choice you're making. I'm not offended by it nor do I find it belittles my experience. So there you go.

I think you are still missing my point(s).

Of course , I have a “choice” whether I do or don’t do any manner of things. but some “choices” are also an expression of something so important/ fundamental (e.g the choice to eat, the choice to be able to freely express one’s sexuality) that we recognise them as fundamental rights to be protected . To me that is not well reflected by the language of “lifestyle choice” as is evidenced in this thread whereby people apparently believe safe parking for families is trivial because having children is a “lifestyle choice”.

But , yes, you and I are not going to agree. You consider having children a “lifestyle choice” and I object to that, and find it problematic - that is a conviction I have; I don’t consider it so much a “choice” as an observation I have made about the world and the value that I attach to it.

theoriginalpinkpanther · 29/05/2023 18:46

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agentshreddie · 29/05/2023 19:04

very much agree theoriginalpinkpanther. Children are not lifestyle choices, they are us! Our society, our future. Equally, is not having children a lifestyle choice? I’d say no. Every individual is different, and contributes in their own way to society and takes away from that society. Hopefully with a balance that is on the plus, but if you genuinely can not, hey as a society, we can afford to keep you afloat and we should. Yes indeed our children might be paying our disability allowance. If you are a working childless person you may be paying my subsidised childcare. Thank you. Thats how society works. If you are very much against the common norms of a society, you can always opt to live in Alaska or somewhere.

Sometimes one doesn’t have a choice either. In many societies you are forced into marriage, and many people go childless because they have fertility problems. You have no idea what random people in a car park are going through. Using the words lifestyle choice makes it sound like you splashed out on a car on credit and now have to pay interest on it. It is sad, derogatory and needlessly inflammatory.

poetryandwine · 29/05/2023 19:05

@theoriginalpinkpanther

As a scientist and a human being I am appalled at the arrogance of someone with no first hand knowledge of the situation casting doubts in the availability of BB spaces for OP.

At the supermarket in my own nice village they are grossly insufficient. Why would that not be the same elsewhere?

Fair enough to object to calling children a ‘lifestyle choice’ but there is no need to go beyond that to make unsupported accusations. Of course our taxes support the disabled, as well as all other NHS users and whoever finds themselves on benefits for whatever reason.

We have no knowledge of OP’s age or employment situation. Many disabled people are productive and many others face prejudice such as yours. Someone in your post does indeed sound ignorant and entitled, but it isn’t the OP.

theoriginalpinkpanther · 29/05/2023 19:22

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Catchasingmewithspiders · 29/05/2023 19:23

The OP said the words lifestyle choice - not the later use of the word choice - but lifestyle choice which seems to be the combination people are having a problem with about herself.

She said her lifestyle did not allow her to have the choice of children, I presume because of her disability. Disabled people often have to make hard choices that able bodied people don't even need to consider.

So if you have an issue with referring to her choice, just her choice, as a lifestyle choice due to her disability then perhaps you haven't considered the impact of a disabled person's lifestyle on their ability to have and raise a child (depending on the disability).

I think it takes some incredibly selfless thought to look at your life and know that it wouldn't be suitable to bring a child into. And if you want to call it sad, derogatory or whatever maybe that's because you are putting your own interpretation of the words onto the OP.

Lifestyle can just mean 'the way you live'. And the way the OP lives is not conducive to a child. That's sad and deserves empathy not condemnation because you are choosing to use a different meaning of the word lifestyle.

theoriginalpinkpanther · 29/05/2023 20:14

The point for me is that society has changed requirements to improve the situation for people with mobility issues. Positively at larger stores the provision has increased but in some cases at the detriment of Child spaces. Blue bad holders have provision to park in any spot and single yellow lines…….I know this from personal experience and family members who have the option but chose to not exercise it to make space for others when they feel fit and better those days. It is all a personal choice and we must reflect on our impact to others and the society around use.

theoriginalpinkpanther · 29/05/2023 20:18

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Sirzy · 29/05/2023 20:25

I avoid parking on double yellow lines if I have any other option because although in most cases it is allowed with a blue badge it doesn’t mean it’s safe!

if I have a choice between using a p and c space or parking on double yellows too right I’m going to park safely in a space.

poetryandwine · 29/05/2023 20:43

@theoriginalpinkpanther

We have no idea whether the OP is a net financial contributor to society, or not. It is offensive and incorrect to assume that all disabled people are net beneficiaries. If she is of pensionable age I assume you wish to share that status one day, yourself.

Overall she is exercising considerable grace on this thread, even if the use of the phrase ‘lifestyle choice’ under provocation wasn’t her finest moment. We should all exercise gratitude for the good in our lives. I cannot see that people receiving benefits to which they are entitled owe extra. Would you have them doff caps or perhaps curtsy also?

The only large supermarket in my nice village has many P&C spaces and not enough BB spaces. I am sure we are not unique.

Rosscameasdoody · 29/05/2023 20:59

Sirzy · 29/05/2023 20:25

I avoid parking on double yellow lines if I have any other option because although in most cases it is allowed with a blue badge it doesn’t mean it’s safe!

if I have a choice between using a p and c space or parking on double yellows too right I’m going to park safely in a space.

Yep, me too. I’m nervous about parking on double yellows and prefer a dedicated space. I was having trouble finding somewhere to park a while back and pulled onto double yellow lines - I’m sure I wasn’t causing an obstruction or anything, but I got moved on by a traffic warden, so didn’t argue !!

Rosscameasdoody · 29/05/2023 21:02

poetryandwine · 29/05/2023 20:43

@theoriginalpinkpanther

We have no idea whether the OP is a net financial contributor to society, or not. It is offensive and incorrect to assume that all disabled people are net beneficiaries. If she is of pensionable age I assume you wish to share that status one day, yourself.

Overall she is exercising considerable grace on this thread, even if the use of the phrase ‘lifestyle choice’ under provocation wasn’t her finest moment. We should all exercise gratitude for the good in our lives. I cannot see that people receiving benefits to which they are entitled owe extra. Would you have them doff caps or perhaps curtsy also?

The only large supermarket in my nice village has many P&C spaces and not enough BB spaces. I am sure we are not unique.

I also think a lot of people tend to forget that many disabled people - and benefit claimants in general - have worked and paid contributions. So they are using the benefits system for exactly the purpose for which it was intended - pay into it when you can, and fall back on it when you need to.

Rosscameasdoody · 29/05/2023 21:04

Catchasingmewithspiders · 29/05/2023 19:23

The OP said the words lifestyle choice - not the later use of the word choice - but lifestyle choice which seems to be the combination people are having a problem with about herself.

She said her lifestyle did not allow her to have the choice of children, I presume because of her disability. Disabled people often have to make hard choices that able bodied people don't even need to consider.

So if you have an issue with referring to her choice, just her choice, as a lifestyle choice due to her disability then perhaps you haven't considered the impact of a disabled person's lifestyle on their ability to have and raise a child (depending on the disability).

I think it takes some incredibly selfless thought to look at your life and know that it wouldn't be suitable to bring a child into. And if you want to call it sad, derogatory or whatever maybe that's because you are putting your own interpretation of the words onto the OP.

Lifestyle can just mean 'the way you live'. And the way the OP lives is not conducive to a child. That's sad and deserves empathy not condemnation because you are choosing to use a different meaning of the word lifestyle.

👏👏👏

poetryandwine · 29/05/2023 21:12

Excellent points , @Rosscameasdoody and @Catchasingmewithspiders

Lambstails · 29/05/2023 22:21

@Sirzy

Yes! Some roads where you could park on a double yellows, well....I wouldn't be surprised if they paint them on the M1 next!

OP posts:
Lambstails · 29/05/2023 22:45

Oh, have I missed all the fun again? I have no idea what I've done now, as what I would assume to be the revealing posts seem to have poofed off in a puff of smoke.

For what it's worth and if it helps....I'm 58, I am a full-time PAYE employee of my own company. Since leaving FTE some 35 years ago, I have had 3 occasions of absence from full-time paid employment (for 4 months, 2 months and 14 months respectively). All 3 were enforced absences following complex spinal surgeries. Oh - and factor in having moved my elderly, frail parents in with us and becoming their full-time carer, I think my husband and I are 'contributing' more than some to the system. The alternative would be for both of them to be in a care home.

I do get cross when I get stereotyped and slapped with the sucking-the-system dry stick, I'm assuming that's what happened here!

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 29/05/2023 22:55

Yes, OP, I am afraid I had reacted to a post from @theoriginalpinkpanther suggesting that people who are ‘takers’ (not sure this was her word) show a becoming spirit of ‘grace and gratitude’ (definitely her phrase). It was clear that this was meant to apply to you.

This was our second go-round, and the second time her post but not my reply was removed. Makes me look a nutter. Sorry about that.

Lambstails · 29/05/2023 22:57

@poetryandwine

I gathered as much, but thank you. To the contrary, I would say more the voice of reason than nutter!

OP posts:
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