Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Parent & Child -v- Disabled Parking Bays?

493 replies

Lambstails · 24/05/2023 15:31

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

OP posts:
whumpthereitis · 28/05/2023 14:19

Tandora · 28/05/2023 14:15

Your distaste for the phrase isn’t one that is universally shared

Quite. Nor is your preference for it.

And whereas I attempted to explain why I found that terminology objectionable (I find it a poor descriptor with problematic implications , for reasons explained) you simply repeated that your use of terminology was universally correct.

I said it was correct according to the actual definition of the collocation. Which it is. Personal feelings towards it, yours and mine, don’t change that.

I have no problem stating my decisions about how I live my life are indeed lifestyle choices. That some of them have been informed by biological urge does not negate my own agency in choosing whether to pursue them or not, and if I did then how and when.

Tandora · 28/05/2023 14:24

whumpthereitis · 28/05/2023 14:19

I said it was correct according to the actual definition of the collocation. Which it is. Personal feelings towards it, yours and mine, don’t change that.

I have no problem stating my decisions about how I live my life are indeed lifestyle choices. That some of them have been informed by biological urge does not negate my own agency in choosing whether to pursue them or not, and if I did then how and when.

Thank you for your opinion, it has been noted.

whumpthereitis · 28/05/2023 14:26

Tandora · 28/05/2023 14:24

Thank you for your opinion, it has been noted.

😂😂😂

No one has been forcing you to reply to posts you find uninteresting.

Spidey66 · 28/05/2023 14:33

Disability trumps p&c all the way. Plus you could always say this was a p&c scenario as your mum (a parent) was here with her child (you). The signs don't specify the ages of the children and parents do they! 😉

cannaecookrisotto · 28/05/2023 14:46

These women were horrible, I'd always prioritise somebody disabled even when I had to lug my pram around. I can make do, they can't.

I remember being able to navigate the pram/car seat situation even when parked in a normal bay, P&C spaces are a nice to have but not a requirement like disabled bays and blue badge holders have a greater need.

YANBU. Next time someone does this, whip out your phone and start recording them. Shame them in the local community group.

theGooHasGone · 28/05/2023 14:53

You've done nothing wrong, and IMO anyone taking you to task about it is an entitled moron. Having children is a choice, having a disability is not.

You were far more polite to them than I would've been!

Badbudgeter · 28/05/2023 15:26

Spidey66 · 28/05/2023 14:33

Disability trumps p&c all the way. Plus you could always say this was a p&c scenario as your mum (a parent) was here with her child (you). The signs don't specify the ages of the children and parents do they! 😉

I’ve noticed the signs now say child under 12 in a few places nowadays probably to stop cf like that.

Lambstails · 28/05/2023 19:11

@beachcitygirl

"These days I would just tell them to fuck off and when they get there fuck off more".

This 😂😂

OP posts:
fitzwilliamdarcy · 28/05/2023 19:35

By way of another analogy would you call being in a gay relationship a “lifestyle choice”?

Being in any relationship is a lifestyle choice.

The sexuality part - straight, gay, bi etc. - is not.

Having children is a choice for the vast majority of women. Powerfully feeling you need to do it does not mean you don’t have a choice.

JustBeKindItsEasy · 28/05/2023 21:36

Sugarfree23 · 28/05/2023 14:02

If women stop having kids because parking at the shops is too difficult. The lack of suitable parking issue should resolve itself within 12 years.

I love this notion.
Wait a further 30 / 40 or so years and there won’t be any need to BB parking either as no one will be paying taxes
In fact it’s Armageddon

Achwheesht · 28/05/2023 21:52

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Sugarfree23 · 28/05/2023 23:42

JustBeKindItsEasy · 28/05/2023 21:36

I love this notion.
Wait a further 30 / 40 or so years and there won’t be any need to BB parking either as no one will be paying taxes
In fact it’s Armageddon

Yes exactly, a whole host of issues and concerns will be resolved.

theGooHasGone · 29/05/2023 03:26

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Daisymae55 · 29/05/2023 04:40

Hi op

i have a 1 year old. I also have an injured wrist and undergoing treatment for this. This injury makes things like setting up dds pram difficult.

i think you are absolutely right to take a p&c space when a bb space isn’t available. Even with an injury, a p&c space is a convenience to me, not something I rely on. They aren’t in every car park and I manage just fine without them, but it does make everything a hell of a lot easier with them. I see so many people parking in p&c spaces who are lone adults with no blue badge and it makes me so angry. Seeing someone who needs a space for actual legitimate reasons would not anger me and I would happily park in a normal space to allow a blue badge holder to park closer to the store.

i think maybe your “you chose to have kids” response wasn’t the best, but based on her attitude I also don’t blame you and would totally take your side.

Tandora · 29/05/2023 08:50

fitzwilliamdarcy · 28/05/2023 19:35

By way of another analogy would you call being in a gay relationship a “lifestyle choice”?

Being in any relationship is a lifestyle choice.

The sexuality part - straight, gay, bi etc. - is not.

Having children is a choice for the vast majority of women. Powerfully feeling you need to do it does not mean you don’t have a choice.

Again, this reflects a very simplistic / binary understanding of “choice” , which has problematic implications.

DappledThings · 29/05/2023 10:32

Tandora · 29/05/2023 08:50

Again, this reflects a very simplistic / binary understanding of “choice” , which has problematic implications.

It isn't problematic for me. Lots of life choices are hard to make with multiple factors, some out of our control, sometimes led by undeniably strong urges. Trying to conceive and picking between an apple or a banana are both choices. I happily accept there is a gigantic breadth of significance in different choices. Doesn't detract from the significance of the biggest of lifestyle choices to me to acknowledge it as that.

Tandora · 29/05/2023 14:18

DappledThings · 29/05/2023 10:32

It isn't problematic for me. Lots of life choices are hard to make with multiple factors, some out of our control, sometimes led by undeniably strong urges. Trying to conceive and picking between an apple or a banana are both choices. I happily accept there is a gigantic breadth of significance in different choices. Doesn't detract from the significance of the biggest of lifestyle choices to me to acknowledge it as that.

It’s not just the significance of the choice, it’s the extent to which you are in fact “freely” / voluntarily “choosing” between liveable/ tolerable alternatives in any kind of meaningful way.
For example, you could say to a gay person - stop complaining about rights for gay couples , you are free to choose to be in a straight relationship if you want to, but you chose to be in a same sex one. It’s a lifestyle choice:.
I think most people would recognise that holding such a position would be intolerable.

Rosscameasdoody · 29/05/2023 14:33

Tandora · 29/05/2023 14:18

It’s not just the significance of the choice, it’s the extent to which you are in fact “freely” / voluntarily “choosing” between liveable/ tolerable alternatives in any kind of meaningful way.
For example, you could say to a gay person - stop complaining about rights for gay couples , you are free to choose to be in a straight relationship if you want to, but you chose to be in a same sex one. It’s a lifestyle choice:.
I think most people would recognise that holding such a position would be intolerable.

So, now you’ve peppered the thread with posts that aren’t really relevant to the OP’s question, let me ask you. In the context of what we’re discussing - the use of BB and P&C child spaces, do you agree that BB trumps P&C because in the main the difficulty in the case of the former is brought about by circumstances beyond the users’ control, whereas in the case of the latter any difficulty is as a result of what is, in the main, a conscious choice ?

DappledThings · 29/05/2023 14:36

you are free to choose to be in a straight relationship if you want to, but you chose to be in a same sex one. It’s a lifestyle choice:.
I think most people would recognise that holding such a position would be intolerable.
Yes, because it's the being in a relationship that is a choice, not sensuality. You can be gay or straight or bi and you always have the choice about whether to try and pursue being in a relationship. It might not be something you end up getting what you want. Same as you might not have a choice about wanting children but actively trying to conceive them is a choice.

DappledThings · 29/05/2023 14:37

FFS, for sensuality read sexuality above. My phone is a prude apparently.

Rosscameasdoody · 29/05/2023 14:40

vejazzlement · 28/05/2023 11:46

I drive in the middle of the road in my Range Rover, because my Range Rover was very expensive and I don't want my Ranger Rover being knocked by any other cars that might be on the road, and because having a Range Rover makes me very big and special and important. Did I mention that I drive a Range Rover?

🤣🤣🤣

Did I mention that I drive a Range Rover?

Ah yes, but can you park it ?!!!

Tandora · 29/05/2023 17:01

Rosscameasdoody · 29/05/2023 14:33

So, now you’ve peppered the thread with posts that aren’t really relevant to the OP’s question, let me ask you. In the context of what we’re discussing - the use of BB and P&C child spaces, do you agree that BB trumps P&C because in the main the difficulty in the case of the former is brought about by circumstances beyond the users’ control, whereas in the case of the latter any difficulty is as a result of what is, in the main, a conscious choice ?

In the context of what we’re discussing - the use of BB and P&C child spaces, do you agree that BB trumps P&C because in the main the difficulty in the case of the former is brought about by circumstances beyond the users’ control, whereas in the case of the latter any difficulty is as a result of what is, in the main, a conscious choice.

No! I agree that a BB holder should have the right to park in a P&C space , and have that priority because their need can be generally presumed to be greater. Getting into who chose what is , as previously stated, meaningless, stupid (/childish) and not remotely just.

Tandora · 29/05/2023 17:04

DappledThings · 29/05/2023 14:36

you are free to choose to be in a straight relationship if you want to, but you chose to be in a same sex one. It’s a lifestyle choice:.
I think most people would recognise that holding such a position would be intolerable.
Yes, because it's the being in a relationship that is a choice, not sensuality. You can be gay or straight or bi and you always have the choice about whether to try and pursue being in a relationship. It might not be something you end up getting what you want. Same as you might not have a choice about wanting children but actively trying to conceive them is a choice.

Right. So according to your logic you can “be” gay (quietly on your own) but if you want to actually have a gay relationship, don’t moan about your rights, because that is a “lifestyle choice”?

DappledThings · 29/05/2023 17:23

Tandora · 29/05/2023 17:04

Right. So according to your logic you can “be” gay (quietly on your own) but if you want to actually have a gay relationship, don’t moan about your rights, because that is a “lifestyle choice”?

Nope, that's not the logical outcome at all. And I never said choices shouldn't come with rights. Having children is a choice, being in a lawfully recognised relationship, whether marriage or a civil partnership comes with rights. Still a choice to enter into those states.

Being a parent is a choice that brings with it some rights and some preferential treatment. Like parental leave and special parking spaces. But the parking spaces bit is optional preferential treatment not a right.

But ultimately we are never going to agree. You think your deep biological urge to procreate makes it deeper an experience than the phrase lifestyle choice implies and are offended by it. That's another choice you're making. I'm not offended by it nor do I find it belittles my experience. So there you go.

AegonT · 29/05/2023 17:49

I am a mother if two and love the convenience of a parent and child space if there is one but they are just that: a convenience and it is no real bother using a normal space even with the carseat and pushchair.

In contrast the blue badge spaces are a necessity for disabled people to be able to get in and out of their cars and to the shop. I am more than happy for a blue badge holder to use a parent and child space if the disabled spaces are full and would assume the shop/security would also be happy.

I sometimes see non blue badge holders that have reduced mobility like an elderly couple or a driver carrying a passenger with a temporarily injury use the parent and child bays and again I am happy with thus as their need is greater than mine.

Swipe left for the next trending thread