Parent & Child -v- Disabled Parking Bays?

[Lambstails]

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

This is baffling.
I wouldn't dream of berating someone in P&C space with a blue badge. I always get annoyed when I see people park in the p&c with no kids. But a disability is different.
Is happily give up a P&C bay for someone with a blue badge.

I'm sorry you experienced that. They were arseholes. I would like all P&C spaces far away from the shops and a notice saying that disabled blue badge holders have priority over everyone else.

You are absolutely not in the wrong and I am sorry you have had this to worry about.

I have a small child and would absolutely agree that a blue badge holder trumps basically anyone else!

I have a big car and it is really annoying to try and get the toddler out in a normal space without hitting anyone else's car/squashing myself or my toddler, but I know very well from my mum's experience in a wheelchair that my inconvenience is nothing compared to the pretty much impossible situation of trying to get a disabled person and wheelchair/equipment into a normal space.

If these incidents with these entitled women have made you nervous to use p&c spaces in the future I would remind you that your blue badge entitles you to park anywhere - including on the double yellows right outside!

You have all my sympathy OP. I did a very, very brief web search hoping to give you some ammunition. Opinion was mostly with you but a bit mixed.

All agree that P&C spaces carry no legal weight.

To get the bad news out of the way first, the top article at the RAC site said however that at the discretion of the Car Park Site, anyone using a P&C space without a child under 12 in the car could be liable for a Parking Charge Notice. Sounds like the obnoxious woman in your first story was equally as vulnerable ad you to this - more so, I bet, because I think you would have grounds for fighting a PCN and I don’t know what hers would be.

Someone writing for Saga tried to get to the bottom of P&C regulations and found they are complex. It matters whether the space is managed by a local council (sympathetic to BB holders) or a private company (perhaps more likely to issue a PCN). However Sainsburys confirmed to the author that when all their BB spaces are taken they are happy for BB holders to use P&C spaces at no risk of a fine. One would hope that other supermarkets have a similar policy. And there was no indication of a BB holder having been issued a PCN in reality.

P&C bays are not legally protected. If BB bags are full, as a BB holder you can park in one of these spaces. Those other two women were wrong and the kind that make all parents look like entitled twats.

I think they should actually move parent and child spaces away from the blue badge spaces and not put them as close to the shop as this would stop the people with 12 year olds/no kids using them. Or when the kids don’t get out of the car. I use parent and child spaces because they are wider and I can put a young child in a car seat, I’m not actually bothered about walking further. Yes it’s further to travel when carrying a tantruming toddler or it’s chucking it down but it would cut down on people parking there for proximity. People who want the wider spaces would be prepared to walk and the others would continue to fight it out for the ones closest to the shop. This isn’t in relation to you using P&C spaces and for this to work there needs to be adequate BB provision.

As this has happened in that car park twice, are you able to raise it the car park company that there is clearly a need for more BB provision?

Sorry I should have added that its the wide spaces we need on her bad days as I have to help her get out of the car. The other spaces are way too narrow so id have to park right at the other end.

Shes in a bloody catch 22 situation where she needs to try and keep as mobile as possible but she struggles with being mobile some days, but not often enough to qualify for a BB 😩

This. Please try not to give these entitled idiots who yelled at you any more headspace. They are entirely in the wrong.

These people are thick as bricks Op.

I think you are ok to use p and c if BB spaces aren't available, legally, so let them report you knowing legislation is on your side. (But not vice versa) I am a disabled blue badge recipient and would do the same as you. 😀 Ignore the ignorant people about.

I'm sorry you had that experience twice from such unpleasant people. I didn't know that supermarkets suggest that BB holders use the P&C spaces if no BB spaces are available. However I do know the P&C spaces are a courtesy and not enforceable. I wouldn't challenge anyone for using one, especially if they had a blue badge. It's obvious why a blue badge holder would be using those spaces.

OP, the advice about staying calm and telling these CF mummies with ‘the entitled gene’ —what a great phrase, PP — to report you to security is excellent. I wouldn’t actually encourage them to photograph you, your car or your reg plate however. You never know where the photo could end up.

Interesting that 8% of votes say that YABU but noone has commented that.

They are obviously spineless as well as arseholes.

P&C spaces are a nice to have.
BB spaces are a necessity.
You should park wherever you need to, as long as it's safe, to make your day as convenient and pain free as possible.

I'm sure that those entitled, selfish people would be straight into those spaces if they ever broke a leg. Kids or no kids.

YANBU to use P and C if there aren't any disabled spaces available.

As you pointed out, parents with children are mobile and there are usually spaces at the ends of car parks that don't have people parked next to them if they need space to get children in and out of a car. You don't have that option as if you parked far away by the time you and your mother got to the shop you would be exhausted.

I am so sorry you met these women on your recent trips. They sound foul. The only thing you can do is if people approach you when you are getting in or out of your car ignore them, as if you can't hear them, and carry on with what you are doing, whether going into the store or driving away.

I'd like to have seen that woman complain to the security guard. He or she would have told her those spaces are purely as a courtesy and are not legally enforceable.

You're not in the wrong at all and I'm surprised people had a go at you - I see people without children (and without blue badges) parked in those spaces all the time.

I find it irritating when people without children and who aren't disabled park in P&C spaces (I'm aware people may have disabilities that aren't visible, and I'd never have a go at anyone, I mean I'm irritated by the idea of people who don't need to parking there). I find it irritating like queue jumping is irritating - not against the law or anything, but inconsiderate.

blue badge trumps a parent and child space every time.

The problem is they shouldn't put P&C spaces so close to the store. Better if they were in the far corner, with a clear footpath to the store. When my kids were younger, I only ever wanted to have space to open the doors wide. I didn't need to be close to the store.

I definitely agree with this. I don't need to be close, I need to be able to get the pram out and open the doors wider than normal.

You are not wrong. I went to Waitrose with my mother who is disabled and has a BB. All the disabled spaces were taken up, I parked in a P&C told Waitrose who said there was no problem in doing that.

I know legally disabled spaces have to be provided. I am not sure about P&C spaces

I've got a 4 year old so I use P&C when I can. I wouldn't dream of saying anything to you even if you'd got the last space! Disability trumps parents who can easily walk. It's a nice thing to use when they're available but otherwise, people just need to stop being so lazy and walk. Sorry this happened to you, you're totally in the right.

You are totally correct to use them .

I would have waited for security silly cow-ap and c spaces arent legal theyre a courtesy

they really have a sense of superiority some parents and should look up law before they mouth off

I'm a parent of a young child and I have a blue badge. I can't imagine being angry at someone for this unless your disability isn't obvious.

Both of those women are unreasonable, selfish, entitled, despicable people.

There is no right in law for P&C spaces, they are offered as a courtesy by some retailers.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women.

My opinion is that they are selfish, ignorant, nasty people.

I wish you and your Mother all the best

You are not in the wrong. Someone with a blue badge should take priority over someone with children who would like to use a P&C space. (Particularly if the 'child' in question is six feet tall and 16!)