Parent & Child -v- Disabled Parking Bays?

[Lambstails]

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

And the few disabled spaces are often taken by people without BBs.

I mentioned upthread that I do find there are often a huge amount of empty disabled spaces tbh. Less so at places like supermarkets and more so at busy family attractions like parks, where there are always two people for every normal parking space and people driving round and round in circles waiting for people to leave.

It does feel like the ratio of those spaces is not reflective of how many disabled people are actually using the attraction, but I do recognise there are rules around how many they need to have.

I went to a big, well known diy store last night. Out of the 4 bb spaces, 2 had pallets of compost parked in them, one had a van loading building materials and the last one had a car with no bb. I though the van would go once loaded so I waited, but they went back into the store.
Luckily, an end space became available so I could park up and still open my door fully. If it hadn't, I would have had to drive the 30 minutes home without getting what i needed.
I've emailed head office of the store this morning to tell them about the compost but don't expect a reply.

What a load of self obsessed twaddle
how rude and totally unwarranted!

It is warranted! Someone has to tell you.

I agree

It takes a certain level of self obsessedness to tell a person who couldn't choose to have children because of their disability that they are unreasonable for referring to it as a choice, just because they, a non disabled person, felt differently about having children.

I'm sure the OP would love to be an able bodied person who could bleat on about how they had to have children because it was a need not a choice, but unfortunately for them real life is somewhat different.

there is nothing in what I said that was either “self obsessed” or “twaddle”. I said I don’t think having children is rightfully described as a lifestyle choice. Someone asked me to clarify what I meant , so I did.

you are incredible rude and unpleasant.

It takes a certain level of self obsessedness to tell a person who couldn't choose to have children because of their disability that they are unreasonable for referring to it as a choice, just because they, a non disabled person, felt differently about having children

All i said was that OP was unreasonable in saying to mother she “should have thought of that before deciding to have children”. I also said it was unreasonable to call having children a “lifestyle choice”. In all other matters OP was not unreasonable at all. I stand by that, for reasons I have explained. nothing self obsessed about it.

Nor have I resulted to personal insults.

no idea why you think I’m a non disabled person.

And anyone who has experienced issues with fertility has my utmost sympathy.

You mean she said that to the woman who had deliberately stayed by her car to scream and shout at her and threaten to call security on here.

And the OP said that the woman had a choice whether to walk further or not but the OP didn't.

there was someone unreasonable in the situation but the woman being screamed and shouted at trying to defend herself was not the unreasonable person.

But actually the post people are responding to was when you waffled on about how having children wasn't a choice for you it was a need and you just had to have them. On a thread about a woman who couldn't make that choice because her lifestyle as a disabled person didn't afford her that choice.

I don't think having children is a lifestyle choice for some women (rape, marital abuse, religious and societal pressures etc) but telling a disabled woman off for saying that her lifestyle didn't allow her that choice is pretty pathetic.

Just stop with your insults. I am allowed to disagree with you and share my perspective without being insulted and attacked. Nothing I did or said was “pathetic”. I didn’t “tell OP off” nor did I “waffle on” . That post you are referring to I was engaged in a discussion with a pp who I directly replied to- they asked me to explain my perspective . The thread is there for all to read.

I ask that you stop personal insulting me now, Thank you.

Being a parent doesn't give you the same rights as a blue badge holder. You have no right to challenge people either.

Tandora

All i said was that OP was unreasonable in saying to mother she “should have thought of that before deciding to have children”. I also said it was unreasonable to call having children a “lifestyle choice”.

Oh blimey, I didn't mean to start WWIII. Look - I asked for peoples' opinions and I'm not going to get the hump at anyone for doing just that. It doesn't mean that I or anyone else has to concur and everyone is within their rights to defend and voice a response.
However, on this particular 'lifestyle choice' matter, I do feel I want to elucidate. I'm sorry, but in MOST cases, the decision to have children is exactly that. A decision. A decision is made when you weigh up all the choices given to you. Therefore, if you have decided you want to bring children into your life, this is a CHOICE you have made, so saying it's a lifestyle choice is accurate in most cases. Note I say 'most', not all. The same applies to a disability (although I'd argue that anyone would ever 'choose' to be disabled). Some disabilities may be contributed to by a lifestyle choice, for example late-stage COPD in someone who has chosen to smoke at some point in their life, a member of the armed forces or emergency services who has suffered a life-changing injury in the course of an irresponsible action etc. There are exceptions to every rule and of course you can't blanket cover everyone with one scenario. BUT - if anyone told me the woman who lay in wait for me had been coerced into childbirth, well frankly, I'd bet my last Rolo they were lying. Her eloquent Hyacinth Bucket accent, the 72-plate Tesla and her forthright manner didn't indicate that this woman lives her life under anything other than her own terms. A combination of her incessant ranting about P&C spaces being exclusively for 'us' (I'm assuming she was referring to an umbrella term for people with children, rather than she wanted all the spaces for herself), together with her superior attitude prompted my comment about her 'choice' to have children. From recall, my actual words were something like this "If the availability of a particular type of parking space was going to be such a vital constituent in your choosing to have a baby, perhaps you should have considered it a bit further". Yes, of course it was sarcastic. The woman got let off lightly IMO!

I've seen rows of empty BB spaces once - it was 7pm and at the local entertainment centre. (Cinema, restaurants, etc type place)

Look - I asked for peoples' opinions and I'm not going to get the hump at anyone for doing just that. It doesn't mean that I or anyone else has to concur and everyone is within their rights to defend and voice a response

thanks for saying this- I appreciate it. It seems some posters can’t cope with hearing an unexpected perspective without becoming personal and unpleasant.

R.e the “lifestyle choice”- perhaps it’s not worth continuing this debate as it’s somewhat of a red herring. 😆However, in one last attempt to clarify- it’s not that I think people are (generally) literally “coerced” into having babies, it’s that I think reducing reproduction to individual “lifestyle choices” misses the mark completely in terms of the fundamental biological and social role that reproduction plays in human society. There are so many things that we do that we in some sense “choose” to do, but we would never think to call “lifestyle choices”. By way of another analogy would you call being in a gay relationship a “lifestyle choice”?

Tandora

By way of another analogy would you call being in a gay relationship a “lifestyle choice”?

Of course. Being in any relationship is a lifestyle choice (again, with some exceptions). Why would you single out a gay relationship for reference?

Yes, being in a relationship is a lifestyle choice, hetero or homosexual. My choosing to be childfree is a lifestyle choice. I’m married, and that’s a lifestyle choice too. Your issue with having children being called what it is, a lifestyle choice, is just that. Your issue. There may indeed be a biological urge, but you have a choice as to whether you want to act on it.

Anyway, disabled spaces and parent and child spaces are not equivalent. A disabled person is absolutely entitled to park in a parent and child space, but the same does not apply in reverse.

The only reason this was introduced into the conversation was to emphasise that people with children have control over whether they become parents - for most, it’s a choice. People with disabilities, or who become disabled, generally do not have either control or choice. To that extent, and within this context it’s relevant. That’s all.

And yes, report the harassment to the store manager(s) / security. Tell the stupid parents to piss off. Film them or photograph their registration numbers.

The most annoying thing one can do with the Mummy Gestapo is ignore them, totally, not a word, passive aggression is always the best! I once had a Yummy yelling at me for being in a P and C space, the more I ignored her, the more hysterical she got, she actually kicked my wheel in sandals, ouch. Once my daughter came out of the store with my grandchild newly nappied she slunk away. Take pictures especially of their children, they really don't like that, another irritant.

Ive always thought that blue badge holders have a right over p&C spaces when there is no BB spaces available. I certainly wouldn't begrudge you although I have myself been really annoyed in the past when people who very clearly do not need the space or the proximity to the shop park there (I'm talking teenage children or a load of young people who park there and practically leap frog to the entrance) I remember being heavily pregnant once and having my 1 year old with me there were no p&C child spaces available so I had no choice but to park in the normal space near to the p&C ones. I came out of the shop with trolley and 1 year old and had to wait for 30 mins as someone had parked too close next to my car and not only could I not open the door wide enough to get a child into a car seat I would never have been able to slide myself into my own drivers seat with my bump. During that wait I must have seen 2 or 3 people come back to their cars with no children and looking very capable of walking and maneuvering in and out of the cars. That peed me off. I think you should try not to worry if you need the space you need the space i would def not be annoyed if I had seen you take the space over me, disappointed maybe as it does make things a bit harder but not angry or annoyed. Parent and child spaces are not in every car park what do those women do then I wonder? probably make the best of it and walk their child through the car park I suspect.

Ive bought a child seat for my Range Rover for my grandson. I always park in P and C spaces whether he’s with me or not as I dont want my Range Rover doors knocked. I dont give a toss if breeding a child gives someone the “right” to park in a certain space. I never use disabled spaces though.

Dont worry about it OP. Dont give a toss next time.

Why mention it’s a Range Rover? Twice.

trying to wind folk up?

I always thought that BB holders can park in P&C spaces if there are no disabled bays available. This is Sainsbury's stance on it.

But how else would we know she's rich and more deserving than the great unwashed?

No because its a big car and easily knocked in small spaces
Why would Range Rover wind you up ? Its only a car