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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Parent & Child -v- Disabled Parking Bays?

493 replies

Lambstails · 24/05/2023 15:31

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

OP posts:
Tandora · 25/05/2023 20:30

whumpthereitis · 25/05/2023 19:15

Of course you’re entitled to think those things, but that has no impact on the fact that having children or not is indeed a choice.

That you don’t think the word reflects the gravity of having children is irrelevant. As painful as you may have found it, you were absolutely free to choose not to have them. Similarly, you were and are free to decide, fertility permitting, how many to have and when to have them. Conversely, someone doesn’t get to opt out of disability.

So would you call “choosing” to eat a “lifestyle choice”? After all, I do “choose” to do that; every single day.

Are children who are unplanned / the product of violence a “lifestyle choice”?

A pp earlier also pointed out examples of how disability can also be a product of people’s “choices”.

Going down this route is meaningless and stupid. It also has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is the need for appropriate / accessible parking spaces for those with particular needs.

Catchasingmewithspiders · 25/05/2023 20:42

agentshreddie · 25/05/2023 19:32

@Catchasingmewithspiders hmm, interesting, yes I was indeed specifically talking about childless people who argue that parents shouldnt have any entitlement to childcare, free meals etc. though that’s only cos I was answering to a comment above. Parents not wanting childcare is unusual really, but my comments towards them would be exactly the same.

You yourself said you are not arguing that parents should get fuck all, so not sure why you are being so aggressive with me here, did you have a bad day?

I said was both sides to this argument need to show some empathy. And what on earth are you on about me not giving empathy. Thats all I said to the OP!

Kindly go try to pick up a fight elsewhere, you are not having it from me tonight. Ciao darling all the best to you.

There have been plenty of threads on here where parents have been annoyed at peoples on benefits getting free childcare, it's fairly common.

I wasn't being aggressive with you. That's your interpretation.

I just had an issue that you suddenly decided that childless people aka people who really want children but haven't been able to have them are all really selfish.

You say both sides need empathy but you don't demonstrate it yourself, just persistently nasty comments about childless people with a tone that could come across as patronising.

Maybe practice what you preach?

agentshreddie · 25/05/2023 20:42

Going down this route is meaningless and stupid. It also has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is the need for appropriate / accessible parking spaces for those with particular needs.

Hear hear on the meaningless and stupid.. We shall evaluate entitlement to parking spaces with a committee from now on. If has 3 babies with ivf, not entitled. If raped, entitled. If disabled through a choice of parachuting with an umbrella, not entitled. Votes for the motion?

thekindlyone · 25/05/2023 21:11

agentshreddie · 25/05/2023 20:42

Going down this route is meaningless and stupid. It also has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is the need for appropriate / accessible parking spaces for those with particular needs.

Hear hear on the meaningless and stupid.. We shall evaluate entitlement to parking spaces with a committee from now on. If has 3 babies with ivf, not entitled. If raped, entitled. If disabled through a choice of parachuting with an umbrella, not entitled. Votes for the motion?

How about has a blue badge = entitled to use a blue badge spaces, doesn't have one then isn't. It's really not complicated.

Tandora · 25/05/2023 21:32

thekindlyone · 25/05/2023 21:11

How about has a blue badge = entitled to use a blue badge spaces, doesn't have one then isn't. It's really not complicated.

I don’t think anyone disagrees with that!

Tandora · 25/05/2023 21:33

agentshreddie · 25/05/2023 20:42

Going down this route is meaningless and stupid. It also has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is the need for appropriate / accessible parking spaces for those with particular needs.

Hear hear on the meaningless and stupid.. We shall evaluate entitlement to parking spaces with a committee from now on. If has 3 babies with ivf, not entitled. If raped, entitled. If disabled through a choice of parachuting with an umbrella, not entitled. Votes for the motion?

🤣🤣🤣👌🏻

ButterCrackers · 25/05/2023 21:34

When you are with your mum you are parent and child. Tell that to the others who complain to you.
You should be able to park easily and why not in the Parent and child spaces when all the blue badge spaces are taken. Could you have a word with the security officer to see what they say.

EsmeSusanOgg · 25/05/2023 21:45

Our local Sainsbury's has some dedicated blue badge bays and then some P&C OR blue badge bays for the rest. Which seems pretty appropriate to me.

I may glare/ tut at someone without children (or with teens, like the first lady) in a P&C space. But not someone with a valid blue badge. They need the space and the proximity to the shop entrance.

Catchasingmewithspiders · 25/05/2023 21:46

Tandora · 25/05/2023 21:32

I don’t think anyone disagrees with that!

Given the poster you are replying to is responding to a poster who has also asked if it's okay if she parks in a disabled spot when the P&C are busy so long as one disabled spot is left free then unfortunately someone does disagree with that. Apparently only one disabled person is allowed out and about at time where they live.

Tandora · 25/05/2023 21:52

Catchasingmewithspiders · 25/05/2023 21:46

Given the poster you are replying to is responding to a poster who has also asked if it's okay if she parks in a disabled spot when the P&C are busy so long as one disabled spot is left free then unfortunately someone does disagree with that. Apparently only one disabled person is allowed out and about at time where they live.

Given the poster you are replying to is responding to a poster who has also asked if it's okay if she parks in a disabled spot

you are reaching.

The poster you responded to was participating in a sub-convo about whether it was relevant to consider who chose what about their circumstances when allocating parking spaces .

whumpthereitis · 25/05/2023 21:56

Tandora · 25/05/2023 20:30

So would you call “choosing” to eat a “lifestyle choice”? After all, I do “choose” to do that; every single day.

Are children who are unplanned / the product of violence a “lifestyle choice”?

A pp earlier also pointed out examples of how disability can also be a product of people’s “choices”.

Going down this route is meaningless and stupid. It also has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is the need for appropriate / accessible parking spaces for those with particular needs.

bad analogies. Food is necessary for survival, whereas you can live without children. But yes, you can indeed choose not to eat.

You can choose to end an unwanted pregnancy in countries where it is legal. If you don’t want to raise a child you’re not forced to.

You’re the one going down this route by trying to claim that parenthood isn’t a choice. It is. You aren’t required to like that for it to be true.

Catchasingmewithspiders · 25/05/2023 22:01

Tandora · 25/05/2023 21:52

Given the poster you are replying to is responding to a poster who has also asked if it's okay if she parks in a disabled spot

you are reaching.

The poster you responded to was participating in a sub-convo about whether it was relevant to consider who chose what about their circumstances when allocating parking spaces .

How am I reaching. It's literally what the poster asks.

On the other hand I’d be interested in your opinion on whether a parent, can use a disabled parking space, if there were no other parent and child options, and there was at least one more empty space for disabled people

And nothing in that post from that poster was specific to choosing circumstances. That was a different post.

Lambstails · 25/05/2023 22:05

@agentshreddie - I did mention in my op that if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to, fair's only fair!

OP posts:
110APiccadilly · 25/05/2023 22:07

I have a two year old and a baby, and use P+C spaces if there are some as it's helpful to have the extra space to get them out. However, anyone with a blue badge who needs that space should definitely have it. I can manage in a normal space (even a tight one if I have to - I ended up climbing across the rear seats today to get baby in, but I did it!), it's just easier in a wider space. If someone has a blue badge, there's a reason for it, and that means (in my head) that they need the extra space, whereas I just like it.

As for the idea that it's unsafe for a mum to push a pram round a car park, that's ridiculous. Cars in a car park are moving slowly anyway. Take reasonable, sensible precautions, of the sort we're all taught as children, like looking both ways, and it's certainly as safe as many other things, probably including the journey to the car park.

Lambstails · 25/05/2023 22:15

@HotPenguin

Of course you are right, a blue badge holder can park anywhere provided they aren't causing an obstruction or danger.

Your mistake is perhaps engaging with these people, just say I have a blue badge, ring the council if you want to understand the rules. Then smile politely and leave

I love this suggestion, thank you. I will remember it in future, although I hope I never need to call it to mind!

OP posts:
agentshreddie · 25/05/2023 22:27

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply OP! the point of that post was that people approach to rules differently, some very inflexibly, and all we need a bit of context based empathy. And you deserved a lot more empathy. You sound like a sensitive person, and the world is filled with rude idiots...hope this thread made you feel a bit better.

Ps- @Cats, hot chocolate and netflix is sooo much nicer than trying to pick a fight with random strangers on MN.

Catchasingmewithspiders · 25/05/2023 22:31

agentshreddie · 25/05/2023 22:27

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply OP! the point of that post was that people approach to rules differently, some very inflexibly, and all we need a bit of context based empathy. And you deserved a lot more empathy. You sound like a sensitive person, and the world is filled with rude idiots...hope this thread made you feel a bit better.

Ps- @Cats, hot chocolate and netflix is sooo much nicer than trying to pick a fight with random strangers on MN.

You keep trying to make out I'm picking a fight with you, when you respond to me tagging me each time. So you can respond to me, but if I respond to you Im picking a fight. Feels like you just don't have a logical answer so want to patronise instead.

Tandora · 25/05/2023 22:36

Catchasingmewithspiders · 25/05/2023 22:01

How am I reaching. It's literally what the poster asks.

On the other hand I’d be interested in your opinion on whether a parent, can use a disabled parking space, if there were no other parent and child options, and there was at least one more empty space for disabled people

And nothing in that post from that poster was specific to choosing circumstances. That was a different post.

This is the comment you responded to:

Hear hear on the meaningless and stupid.. We shall evaluate entitlement to parking spaces with a committee from now on. If has 3 babies with ivf, not entitled. If raped, entitled. If disabled through a choice of parachuting with an umbrella, not entitled. Votes for the motion?

which was a reply to me about how it was stupid to start adjudicating peoples choices. Maybe you directed your comment at the wrong poster?

Tandora · 25/05/2023 22:39

110APiccadilly · 25/05/2023 22:07

I have a two year old and a baby, and use P+C spaces if there are some as it's helpful to have the extra space to get them out. However, anyone with a blue badge who needs that space should definitely have it. I can manage in a normal space (even a tight one if I have to - I ended up climbing across the rear seats today to get baby in, but I did it!), it's just easier in a wider space. If someone has a blue badge, there's a reason for it, and that means (in my head) that they need the extra space, whereas I just like it.

As for the idea that it's unsafe for a mum to push a pram round a car park, that's ridiculous. Cars in a car park are moving slowly anyway. Take reasonable, sensible precautions, of the sort we're all taught as children, like looking both ways, and it's certainly as safe as many other things, probably including the journey to the car park.

I believe the safety issue is about having enough space to get the baby out of the car in a carrier and into a pushchair etc without being parked in the middle of the road. I wasn’t aware that this was the reason for P&C spaces (I don’t even have a car) but I have been enlightened by this thread.

Catchasingmewithspiders · 25/05/2023 22:40

Tandora · 25/05/2023 22:36

This is the comment you responded to:

Hear hear on the meaningless and stupid.. We shall evaluate entitlement to parking spaces with a committee from now on. If has 3 babies with ivf, not entitled. If raped, entitled. If disabled through a choice of parachuting with an umbrella, not entitled. Votes for the motion?

which was a reply to me about how it was stupid to start adjudicating peoples choices. Maybe you directed your comment at the wrong poster?

No The comment I responded to was you saying

I don’t think anyone disagrees with that!

To a post someone said

How about has a blue badge = entitled to use a blue badge spaces, doesn't have one then isn't. It's really not complicated.

And they were replying to the poster who had made the comment you are just quoted.

However I said that poster who has also asked aka in another post by the same poster was the comment I just quoted.

Marths · 25/05/2023 22:47

agentshreddie · 25/05/2023 22:27

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply OP! the point of that post was that people approach to rules differently, some very inflexibly, and all we need a bit of context based empathy. And you deserved a lot more empathy. You sound like a sensitive person, and the world is filled with rude idiots...hope this thread made you feel a bit better.

Ps- @Cats, hot chocolate and netflix is sooo much nicer than trying to pick a fight with random strangers on MN.

I don't think believing that people without a BB shouldn't park in a BB space - which is illegal by the way - makes someone an inflexible rude idiot. I hope you don't take OPs response as an excuse to actually start doing it.

Tandora · 25/05/2023 22:47

Catchasingmewithspiders · 25/05/2023 22:40

No The comment I responded to was you saying

I don’t think anyone disagrees with that!

To a post someone said

How about has a blue badge = entitled to use a blue badge spaces, doesn't have one then isn't. It's really not complicated.

And they were replying to the poster who had made the comment you are just quoted.

However I said that poster who has also asked aka in another post by the same poster was the comment I just quoted.

Oh sorry I thought you were the same person who said this-

How about has a blue badge = entitled to use a blue badge spaces, doesn't have one then isn't. It's really not complicated”

in response to someone else making a joke.

Regardless, I don’t think anyone in this thread disagrees that BB spaces should be for BB holders.

There was one poster who asked a question of the OP, to understand more about her reasoning.

Catchasingmewithspiders · 25/05/2023 22:54

Tandora · 25/05/2023 22:47

Oh sorry I thought you were the same person who said this-

How about has a blue badge = entitled to use a blue badge spaces, doesn't have one then isn't. It's really not complicated”

in response to someone else making a joke.

Regardless, I don’t think anyone in this thread disagrees that BB spaces should be for BB holders.

There was one poster who asked a question of the OP, to understand more about her reasoning.

The thing with asking a disabled poster with a BB to explain their reasoning around whether or not people without BBs can use BB spaces is that it makes it that poster sound like they think its reasonable for a parent to park in a disabled spot if they want to. The OP doesnt need to explain her reasoning the law does that. But apparently that poster thinks people following the law are just being inflexible and unempathetic. So actually I draw from that the distinct impression that she thinks BB spaces should be for BB people and her if she feels like it.

Lambstails · 25/05/2023 23:05

@Marths @agentshreddie

I don't think believing that people without a BB shouldn't park in a BB space - which is illegal by the way - makes someone an inflexible rude idiot. I hope you don't take OPs response as an excuse to actually start doing it.

No....nooo please don't, lol! I meant if it were not illegal to do so, would I mind? Probably not under sensible circumstances

OP posts:
Tandora · 26/05/2023 00:05

Catchasingmewithspiders · 25/05/2023 22:54

The thing with asking a disabled poster with a BB to explain their reasoning around whether or not people without BBs can use BB spaces is that it makes it that poster sound like they think its reasonable for a parent to park in a disabled spot if they want to. The OP doesnt need to explain her reasoning the law does that. But apparently that poster thinks people following the law are just being inflexible and unempathetic. So actually I draw from that the distinct impression that she thinks BB spaces should be for BB people and her if she feels like it.

I’m def not here to defend that particular exchange , but personally I didn’t read that question as implying she thinks it’s reasonable for a parent to park in a disabled spot if they want to.

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