Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Parent & Child -v- Disabled Parking Bays?

493 replies

Lambstails · 24/05/2023 15:31

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

OP posts:
Densol57 · 27/05/2023 22:53

Catchasingmewithspiders · 27/05/2023 22:36

But how else would we know she's rich and more deserving than the great unwashed?

Well yeah but thats beside the point

JandalsAlways · 27/05/2023 23:03

Densol57 · 27/05/2023 22:17

Ive bought a child seat for my Range Rover for my grandson. I always park in P and C spaces whether he’s with me or not as I dont want my Range Rover doors knocked. I dont give a toss if breeding a child gives someone the “right” to park in a certain space. I never use disabled spaces though.

Dont worry about it OP. Dont give a toss next time.

Ha ha, this post can't be real. You're fine OP, park where you want

Famzonhol · 27/05/2023 23:15

Buying a Range Rover is definitely a lifestyle choice.

……or is it?

TrashyPanda · 27/05/2023 23:57

Densol57 · 27/05/2023 22:52

No because its a big car and easily knocked in small spaces
Why would Range Rover wind you up ? Its only a car

Why would it wind me up? It’s Only a car and wouldn’t impress anyone with a brain.

park more carefully and it won’t get knocked in normal spaces. Or get a car more suited to your parking skills.

JandalsAlways · 28/05/2023 01:31

TrashyPanda · 27/05/2023 23:57

Why would it wind me up? It’s Only a car and wouldn’t impress anyone with a brain.

park more carefully and it won’t get knocked in normal spaces. Or get a car more suited to your parking skills.

Exactly. Buy a car that you can park, rather than taking up spaces that aren't for you.

thaisweetchill · 28/05/2023 01:51

I was on the understanding you can park in a parent and child if you have a disabled badge and there were no disabled bays free. For someone who uses P&C bays regularly and am severely p'd off if none are free I don't mind if I can see a disabled badge. I have told a few people off for using them for but I'm always 100% they're not disabled just lazy twats.

However, I do think you were wrong to be nasty to the Second Lady to say it was her choice to have children. The reason I use P&C bays is because my son is 3 and will open the door that far I wouldn't have one left if we had to park in normal bays. I'd rather these bays be right at the back of the car park to enable we get a space as they're too easy for lazy people to use.

JustBeKindItsEasy · 28/05/2023 02:25

I know this is slightly off subject but this issue has been mentioned a few times.
Went shopping today in Maidstone and because of this thread I found myself looking at the parking arrangements……yes sad life I know.

Maybe it’s just where I live but I disagreed with many on here who remarked that there’s never enough disabled parking. Simply because here in Kent ( and I’ve lived in various parts ) it’s always the disabled spaces which are free and when with my mum she never had an issue.

I was in a few places, everywhere was really busy but there were spaces free.

Maybe there are just less disabled people here in mid Kent although I have lived in London, Birmingham, west Wales and Herts.

Id add a Google image for the Maidstone shops but they are 12mb so too big. But Sainsburies has 23 BB spaces and 14 in use. It has 10 P&C spaces with 9 in use.
Next ( out of town ) has 8 BB spaces and 4 used. No P& C spaces that I can see.

I do think some places need more BB and P&C spaces and parking standards need to be updated for wider cars in general like the parking at Bluewater where all the spaces are extra wide.

HoppingPavlova · 28/05/2023 05:19

Why has this taken up so much real estate in your head? I have nothing wrong with me apart from several decades in the clock. I park in P&C spaces if they are free and there is plenty of Blue Badge spare, merely because it’s convenient for me. Where I am, these can not be officially enforced with fines (unlike parking in Blue Badge if you don’t have one). They are a marketing gimmick by shops wanting to make it easier for people to visit, that’s all.

These spots didn’t exist when I had kids, we all coped, because we had to. The catch cry of ‘cars are bigger now and parents need the space’ is bullshit as well. I drive a huge arse SUV and honestly the cars we drove in 60’s/70’s were just as wide, now SUV’s4WD’s are longer and taller but not wider. Cars got a LOT smaller in the 80’s/90’s/00’s before the climb back to large SUV’s4WDs being common so I think it’s just a furfy because the cars many parents remember now from their childhoods were quite small. Before that parents coped with big wide cars AND babies on the back seats in big bassinets they often needed to get in/out of cars, prams that were large/cumbersome, not streamlined like today. Everyone managed.

I don’t feel at all guilty using these spots and don’t listen at all if an entitled parent feels the need to go off.

Phoebo · 28/05/2023 05:26

HoppingPavlova · 28/05/2023 05:19

Why has this taken up so much real estate in your head? I have nothing wrong with me apart from several decades in the clock. I park in P&C spaces if they are free and there is plenty of Blue Badge spare, merely because it’s convenient for me. Where I am, these can not be officially enforced with fines (unlike parking in Blue Badge if you don’t have one). They are a marketing gimmick by shops wanting to make it easier for people to visit, that’s all.

These spots didn’t exist when I had kids, we all coped, because we had to. The catch cry of ‘cars are bigger now and parents need the space’ is bullshit as well. I drive a huge arse SUV and honestly the cars we drove in 60’s/70’s were just as wide, now SUV’s4WD’s are longer and taller but not wider. Cars got a LOT smaller in the 80’s/90’s/00’s before the climb back to large SUV’s4WDs being common so I think it’s just a furfy because the cars many parents remember now from their childhoods were quite small. Before that parents coped with big wide cars AND babies on the back seats in big bassinets they often needed to get in/out of cars, prams that were large/cumbersome, not streamlined like today. Everyone managed.

I don’t feel at all guilty using these spots and don’t listen at all if an entitled parent feels the need to go off.

All great points, especially re bigger cars. Although I do think back then people could actually drive and park their cars, and of course they weren't massive wankers! 😀

ZZpop · 28/05/2023 08:21

"The reason I use P&C bays is because my son is 3 and will open the door that far I wouldn't have one left if we had to park in normal bays."

Child lock. You open it.

Sirzy · 28/05/2023 08:34

thaisweetchill · 28/05/2023 01:51

I was on the understanding you can park in a parent and child if you have a disabled badge and there were no disabled bays free. For someone who uses P&C bays regularly and am severely p'd off if none are free I don't mind if I can see a disabled badge. I have told a few people off for using them for but I'm always 100% they're not disabled just lazy twats.

However, I do think you were wrong to be nasty to the Second Lady to say it was her choice to have children. The reason I use P&C bays is because my son is 3 and will open the door that far I wouldn't have one left if we had to park in normal bays. I'd rather these bays be right at the back of the car park to enable we get a space as they're too easy for lazy people to use.

What are your medical qualifications which allow you to look at someone and know their health status? I’m sure the NHS would love to have someone with such skills working for them!

Tandora · 28/05/2023 11:33

Lambstails · 27/05/2023 20:32

Tandora

By way of another analogy would you call being in a gay relationship a “lifestyle choice”?

Of course. Being in any relationship is a lifestyle choice (again, with some exceptions). Why would you single out a gay relationship for reference?

Wow ok. I personally would find that highly offensive too.
Maybe the concept of a “lifestyle choice” just has different connotations for me than it does for you.

Tandora · 28/05/2023 11:37

Rosscameasdoody · 27/05/2023 21:26

The only reason this was introduced into the conversation was to emphasise that people with children have control over whether they become parents - for most, it’s a choice. People with disabilities, or who become disabled, generally do not have either control or choice. To that extent, and within this context it’s relevant. That’s all.

Yes I do understand that, and I find it highly problematic. What matters is that people have parking spaces based on need, not the degree
to which they “chose” their present circumstances.

Tandora · 28/05/2023 11:40

whumpthereitis · 27/05/2023 20:55

Yes, being in a relationship is a lifestyle choice, hetero or homosexual. My choosing to be childfree is a lifestyle choice. I’m married, and that’s a lifestyle choice too. Your issue with having children being called what it is, a lifestyle choice, is just that. Your issue. There may indeed be a biological urge, but you have a choice as to whether you want to act on it.

Anyway, disabled spaces and parent and child spaces are not equivalent. A disabled person is absolutely entitled to park in a parent and child space, but the same does not apply in reverse.

Your issue with having children being called what it is, a lifestyle choice, is just that. Your issue

I don’t understand why you keep saying things like this?
Why is your opinion universal truth and my opinion my own personal issue?

Catchasingmewithspiders · 28/05/2023 11:46

Tandora · 28/05/2023 11:33

Wow ok. I personally would find that highly offensive too.
Maybe the concept of a “lifestyle choice” just has different connotations for me than it does for you.

I find the concept of being in a relationship not being a lifestyle choice highly problematic.

Because if being in a relationship, any relationship, is a need and not a choice then that starts to lean towards incels beliefs that they should be allowed a relationship regardless of whether the other party wants one, or the concept of forced marriages. Because if a relationship is a need not a choice then someone has to fulfil that need.

Now I haven't always agreed with you on the thread but i am pretty pretty certain that this is not the point you were making, but i think by calling the relationship the lifestyles choice and not the sexuality you were not actually making the point you were trying to make.

Being gay isnt a lifestyle choice, being straight isnt a lifestyle choice, being bi isnt a lifestyle choice. But being in any relationship is a lifestyle choice.

The biological need to have a child isnt a lifestyle choice. The overwhelming convinction that you dont want to have children isnt a lifestyle choice. Being infertile isnt a lifestyle choice. But having a child, or fertility treatment or not having a child is a lifestyle choice.

I wonder if you have not been through IVF? I don't mean this in a contentious way. I found that when I was just having sex to try for a baby it felt less like a conscious choice. But the booking of IVF, injecting myself etc, that felt very much more like a deliberate decision. Having unprotected sex was more "what will be will be" where as IVF was "I definitely want and choose this". that's just my experience though, but why I do think having children is most of the time.

I don't think it's a phrase that should be wielded with abandon. I have already covered in another post why having a child is not always a lifestyle choice. But I defend the OPs right to say that not having a child herself was a lifestyle choice.

But if we keep pointing out that having a child is a need not a choice then again that strays close to the line that women shouldn't have a choice.

vejazzlement · 28/05/2023 11:46

Densol57 · 27/05/2023 22:17

Ive bought a child seat for my Range Rover for my grandson. I always park in P and C spaces whether he’s with me or not as I dont want my Range Rover doors knocked. I dont give a toss if breeding a child gives someone the “right” to park in a certain space. I never use disabled spaces though.

Dont worry about it OP. Dont give a toss next time.

I drive in the middle of the road in my Range Rover, because my Range Rover was very expensive and I don't want my Ranger Rover being knocked by any other cars that might be on the road, and because having a Range Rover makes me very big and special and important. Did I mention that I drive a Range Rover?

Tandora · 28/05/2023 11:54

Catchasingmewithspiders · 28/05/2023 11:46

I find the concept of being in a relationship not being a lifestyle choice highly problematic.

Because if being in a relationship, any relationship, is a need and not a choice then that starts to lean towards incels beliefs that they should be allowed a relationship regardless of whether the other party wants one, or the concept of forced marriages. Because if a relationship is a need not a choice then someone has to fulfil that need.

Now I haven't always agreed with you on the thread but i am pretty pretty certain that this is not the point you were making, but i think by calling the relationship the lifestyles choice and not the sexuality you were not actually making the point you were trying to make.

Being gay isnt a lifestyle choice, being straight isnt a lifestyle choice, being bi isnt a lifestyle choice. But being in any relationship is a lifestyle choice.

The biological need to have a child isnt a lifestyle choice. The overwhelming convinction that you dont want to have children isnt a lifestyle choice. Being infertile isnt a lifestyle choice. But having a child, or fertility treatment or not having a child is a lifestyle choice.

I wonder if you have not been through IVF? I don't mean this in a contentious way. I found that when I was just having sex to try for a baby it felt less like a conscious choice. But the booking of IVF, injecting myself etc, that felt very much more like a deliberate decision. Having unprotected sex was more "what will be will be" where as IVF was "I definitely want and choose this". that's just my experience though, but why I do think having children is most of the time.

I don't think it's a phrase that should be wielded with abandon. I have already covered in another post why having a child is not always a lifestyle choice. But I defend the OPs right to say that not having a child herself was a lifestyle choice.

But if we keep pointing out that having a child is a need not a choice then again that strays close to the line that women shouldn't have a choice.

i get what you are saying, but I think it is completely unrealistic and problematic to separate the “fact” of someone’s sexuality to the exercise / expression of it- (that’s dangerously close to the religious line some people take that you can “be” gay as long as you don’t act on it).

In the same way , the drive to have children obviously affects the “choice” to do it. A lot of you on this thread seem to have a very binary and simplistic understanding of “choice”, as something you either “have” or “don’t”. That’s not how the world works.

Lambstails · 28/05/2023 13:25

@tandora @Catchasingmewithspiders

I have found your posts interesting and yes, enlightening - both of you have made me sit and think differently (which is always a good thing), so thank you both for that. It would be interesting to spend an hour and a coffee with you both, I'm not sure if we'd spend the time pulling each others' pigtails and calling for security, or laughing. Either way it definitely wouldn't be boring!

OP posts:
whumpthereitis · 28/05/2023 13:34

Tandora · 28/05/2023 11:40

Your issue with having children being called what it is, a lifestyle choice, is just that. Your issue

I don’t understand why you keep saying things like this?
Why is your opinion universal truth and my opinion my own personal issue?

Because it’s the actual definition of the collocation ‘lifestyle choice’? According to the actual meaning of the words, rather than personal feelings projected onto said words. You finding it offensive doesn’t oblige anyone else to consider it in the same way, or to moderate their usage of it.

Tandora · 28/05/2023 13:58

whumpthereitis · 28/05/2023 13:34

Because it’s the actual definition of the collocation ‘lifestyle choice’? According to the actual meaning of the words, rather than personal feelings projected onto said words. You finding it offensive doesn’t oblige anyone else to consider it in the same way, or to moderate their usage of it.

lol you clearly don’t understand how language works.

Tandora · 28/05/2023 14:01

Lambstails · 28/05/2023 13:25

@tandora @Catchasingmewithspiders

I have found your posts interesting and yes, enlightening - both of you have made me sit and think differently (which is always a good thing), so thank you both for that. It would be interesting to spend an hour and a coffee with you both, I'm not sure if we'd spend the time pulling each others' pigtails and calling for security, or laughing. Either way it definitely wouldn't be boring!

Hahaha aww ❤️ you too OP. You sound like a really down to earth , lovely and funny person.
And keep parking wherever you bloody well want xxx 💪🏻😘

Sugarfree23 · 28/05/2023 14:02

If women stop having kids because parking at the shops is too difficult. The lack of suitable parking issue should resolve itself within 12 years.

whumpthereitis · 28/05/2023 14:06

Tandora · 28/05/2023 13:58

lol you clearly don’t understand how language works.

Illuminating reply, that.

I understand quite well how language works, actually. It’s been quite necessary for me to do so, given that I’ve been required to learn more than one. Your distaste for the phrase isn’t one that is universally shared, and it is not in itself reason to object to anyone else using it in the name of preserving your delicate sensibilities.

beachcitygirl · 28/05/2023 14:09

They are assholes of the highest order. My daughter is disabled & I had similiar years ago. A very posh middle aged lady with a kid of about 9 with her. She was still in her car and furiously honking her horn as I was parking in P&C space
When I got out she was blocking back off my car (so I couldn't open the boot) I told her to move or I would call security, she was so so convinced she was in the right. Store security came out, she was put in her place pdq.

These days I would just tell them to fuck off and when they get there fuck off more.

Tandora · 28/05/2023 14:15

whumpthereitis · 28/05/2023 14:06

Illuminating reply, that.

I understand quite well how language works, actually. It’s been quite necessary for me to do so, given that I’ve been required to learn more than one. Your distaste for the phrase isn’t one that is universally shared, and it is not in itself reason to object to anyone else using it in the name of preserving your delicate sensibilities.

Your distaste for the phrase isn’t one that is universally shared

Quite. Nor is your preference for it.

And whereas I attempted to explain why I found that terminology objectionable (I find it a poor descriptor with problematic implications , for reasons explained) you simply repeated that your use of terminology was universally correct.