Page 15 | An alcoholic returning to booze after sobriety is a choice not a damn disease

Violet143 · 2023-05-22T15:56:46+00:00

So it ends. A blissful 9 months of abstinence where it felt as though I finally had some semblance of a mother back for the first time in 15 years. She reached rock bottom last year and was hospitalised, went through medical detox etc. I broke NC of almost a year and supported her, like a mug, as she really seemed to have had a wake up call. She had counselling, at my expense. She was upfront that the drinking was boredom and habit, not some massive trauma response. Last week she made the conscious choice, whilst in complete sobriety, to return to the booze. Why? She was bored and didn't have much "in her life" ...other than supportive children and grandchildren who love her, as worthless as we are. I've heard alcoholism referred to as a disease, just like cancer, except you don't go and buy more cancer from the corner shop when it runs out - do you? It's a choice, especially when you don't have the additional complication of physical addiction to contend with. I'm so sick and tired of all of the excusing the behaviour and this is exactly why I couldn't stomach another session of Al anon. Do you strongly disagree if so why?

Damnspot · 25/05/2023 08:04

GracePalmer33 · 25/05/2023 07:58

Violet, how long did you give Al-anon a go? I'm really surprised by your take home from it and that you cant stomach another session because you're sick of people excusing alcoholics behaviour.

That's not what Al-anon is about at all. Both Al-anon and AA do not make excuses for an active alcoholics behaviour. AA does not think that an active alcoholics absolutely selfish and often disgusting behaviour is okay or that it should just be forgiven because it's "not their fault". Al-Anon does not say that active alcoholics should be endlessly supported with love and kindness and sympathy at all costs.

People can believe that someone who has alcoholism has an illness that they are unable to control, whilst still hating their behaviour, thinking it is selfish (it is) and not wanting that person in their life and cutting them off.

Alcoholism is a selfish illness. It makes people incredibly selfish, self obsessed and self involved. Active alcoholics behaviour can be diabolical. I say that as a recovering alcoholic, who's behaviour was frequently diabolical. I don't expect everyone who I have "wronged" to forgive me. If I had children while I was in active alcoholism (I didn't) I certainly wouldn't expect them to just forgive me and invite me back into their lives, and AA wouldn't expect them to, or ask them to or even necessarily want them to!!

When members in AA share about the extreme damage they have done to their children and say that they still want nothing to do with them now they are sober, NO ONE in AA is thinking , awww but they should forgive you, it wasn't your fault, you had an excuse! NO ONE thinks that way.

Al-Anon isn't about forgiving the active alcoholic and just accepting their shit behaviour. sure, it is about helping the family member to better understand the illness so they can hopefully accept and come to terms with the fact that they have absolutely no influence or control in whether that person drinks again or whether that person accepts help or recovery.
It's to help the family member build their own self esteem and self worth after probably years of harm and abuse. To help the family member detach from the active alcoholic and move on without guilt, if that's what is needed. To help them realise they don't need to be a punching bag for the active alcoholic. To better their lives!!

I'm sorry you seemed to have gone to a particular group where this wasn't the case but it is not reflective of Al/anon as a whole. I'd urge you to give it another try. I repeat, it is not something designed to get sympathy for the alcoholic or sit around giving excuses for active alcoholics !!! It's all about the family member and how they can become empowered and not let the alcoholic dominate and control their lives.

In AA we often express sympathy when we think of people we know who have relapsed, or people we know who "just can't seem to get it" and are still drinking. We express sympathy because to us it is sad that they live that way when we know there is a "solution". No one sane would want to live that way, active alcoholics are not sane. Which prevents them from seeing that there is a way out or a solution.

But as much as we feel sympathy for the active alcoholic, we feel even more concern and sympathy for the family of the alcoholic. We understand that those are who really suffer in this.

Excellent post.

GracePalmer33 · 25/05/2023 08:06

In AA we often say that alcoholism is a "family illness" and that the whole family suffers and can become sick at the hands of the alcoholic.

In my opinion, Violet is a perfect example of this in action. And it's very sad. And it's not Violets "fault" that she was born to an alcoholic, but unless she accepts some kind of help and accepts that she needs to work to change her way of thinking then she'll likely be preventing herself from living the life she should be.

Bitterness, resentment, anger, pity and blame is literally a soul destroying cocktail.
And ironically, exactly the cocktail that an alcoholic would love to drink on, but for non alcoholics it will manifest in other, harmful and destructive ways.

Damnspot · 25/05/2023 08:08

GracePalmer33 · 25/05/2023 08:06

In AA we often say that alcoholism is a "family illness" and that the whole family suffers and can become sick at the hands of the alcoholic.

In my opinion, Violet is a perfect example of this in action. And it's very sad. And it's not Violets "fault" that she was born to an alcoholic, but unless she accepts some kind of help and accepts that she needs to work to change her way of thinking then she'll likely be preventing herself from living the life she should be.

Bitterness, resentment, anger, pity and blame is literally a soul destroying cocktail.
And ironically, exactly the cocktail that an alcoholic would love to drink on, but for non alcoholics it will manifest in other, harmful and destructive ways.

Another excellent post. Oh for a like button. @Violet143 I hope you are reading these.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 25/05/2023 08:09

Violet, how long did you give Al-anon a go? I'm really surprised by your take home from it and that you cant stomach another session because you're sick of people excusing alcoholics behaviour

This thread is full of it too. “oh it’s difficult” “it’s a disease” “it’s not a choice”

even if you accept those things it doesn’t mean it’s not the addict’s responsibility and not everyone else’s to put up with them

no one wants to get addicted and no one is at fault for that.

But ultimately it is a choice to succumb or to try and overcome it. Is it easy no of course it isn’t but neither is living as an addict and feeling you can do nothing to stop the descent into hell either. And enabling that is not helpful.

Damnspot · 25/05/2023 08:11

It's not enabling
It's accepting that you can't do anything to stop the progress of the addiction but you can work on yourself
And sometimes, particularly after time has passed, that means forgiveness and understanding

GracePalmer33 · 25/05/2023 08:13

TooOldForThisNonsense · 25/05/2023 08:09

Violet, how long did you give Al-anon a go? I'm really surprised by your take home from it and that you cant stomach another session because you're sick of people excusing alcoholics behaviour

This thread is full of it too. “oh it’s difficult” “it’s a disease” “it’s not a choice”

even if you accept those things it doesn’t mean it’s not the addict’s responsibility and not everyone else’s to put up with them

no one wants to get addicted and no one is at fault for that.

But ultimately it is a choice to succumb or to try and overcome it. Is it easy no of course it isn’t but neither is living as an addict and feeling you can do nothing to stop the descent into hell either. And enabling that is not helpful.

This thread is even more full of people saying the exact opposite to that?

And Al-anon isn't about excusing the behaviour. I actually agree with you that people should not put up with, or enable active alcoholics behaviour. People believing that the alcoholic has no control over having the illness can still believe those things.

Al-anon actually helps people to NOT enable the alcoholic and to detach from the alcoholic. It's literally for what you just said.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 25/05/2023 08:18

I wasn’t specifically talking about Al Anon, (more about this thread) but it’s tied in with AA and their ways isn’t it which I’m not personally aligned with.

As AA isn’t the answer for all addicts maybe Al Anon isn’t the answer for all families.

GracePalmer33 · 25/05/2023 08:23

TooOldForThisNonsense · 25/05/2023 08:18

I wasn’t specifically talking about Al Anon, (more about this thread) but it’s tied in with AA and their ways isn’t it which I’m not personally aligned with.

As AA isn’t the answer for all addicts maybe Al Anon isn’t the answer for all families.

Sure, it may not be the answer. But it sure sounds like worth a shot rather than continuing as is and doing nothing.

Sometimes the idea of changing is so terrifying, or people aren't ready to change or they believe they are so justified in their anger that they shouldn't HAVE to change, and so make excuses such as "oh that won't work" or "I tried that, didn't work". Fair play to them, they get to continue how they are then. It's clearly working for them...

Blossomtoes · 25/05/2023 08:41

GracePalmer33 · 25/05/2023 08:06

In AA we often say that alcoholism is a "family illness" and that the whole family suffers and can become sick at the hands of the alcoholic.

In my opinion, Violet is a perfect example of this in action. And it's very sad. And it's not Violets "fault" that she was born to an alcoholic, but unless she accepts some kind of help and accepts that she needs to work to change her way of thinking then she'll likely be preventing herself from living the life she should be.

Bitterness, resentment, anger, pity and blame is literally a soul destroying cocktail.
And ironically, exactly the cocktail that an alcoholic would love to drink on, but for non alcoholics it will manifest in other, harmful and destructive ways.

Amen to that.

LindorDoubleChoc · 25/05/2023 10:26

OP what I hope you have taken away from this thread is that no one would disagree with you that you do not have to have a relationship with your mother any more. I hope you find the strength to achieve that without it causing you too much distress, although I know you will always feel why WHY WHY wasn't her family enough to make her give up!? It's a feeling experienced by all loved ones of addicts and the answer is always the same ... the compulsion to use is hard to resist. It's not impossible, otherwise there would be no recovering addicts, but it is hard.

I feel so much for you and wish there was something comforting I could say. From GracePalmer33's excellent posts, maybe you could give Al-Anon another go and speak about your feelings surrounding forgiveness? Or find another group, or an online one? It seems like you are alone in all this and I'm sure you really could do with some additional support.

pointythings · 25/05/2023 11:30

I would add that if Al-Anon isn't for you there's also SMART family and friends, which is completely secular and CBT based. It might be a better fit for you.