An alcoholic returning to booze after sobriety is a choice not a damn disease

[Violet143]

So it ends. A blissful 9 months of abstinence where it felt as though I finally had some semblance of a mother back for the first time in 15 years. She reached rock bottom last year and was hospitalised, went through medical detox etc. I broke NC of almost a year and supported her, like a mug, as she really seemed to have had a wake up call. She had counselling, at my expense. She was upfront that the drinking was boredom and habit, not some massive trauma response.

Last week she made the conscious choice, whilst in complete sobriety, to return to the booze. Why? She was bored and didn't have much "in her life" ...other than supportive children and grandchildren who love her, as worthless as we are.

I've heard alcoholism referred to as a disease, just like cancer, except you don't go and buy more cancer from the corner shop when it runs out - do you?

It's a choice, especially when you don't have the additional complication of physical addiction to contend with.

I'm so sick and tired of all of the excusing the behaviour and this is exactly why I couldn't stomach another session of Al anon.

Do you strongly disagree if so why?

Sex isn't fun?
Ah come on, seriously, who says that sex isn't fun & nice? Mostly, I mean.
Huff at that one.

My cousin is alcoholic & says not once was it ever fun to drink ,she never once thought of drinking as fun. It did take edge off her social anxiety, though.

Report it and get it deleted then. Needed to be said.

But they do turn into a monster and it affects the people around them and they don't give a shit. Lies , stealing , aggression , anger , violence, manipulation. The sheer fear and anxiety of wondering what shit they will bring to the door next and what trouble they will get themselves into. It's very hard to have pity on people who subject other people to this kind of behaviour. Addicts are not powerless against their addiction , otherwise how would any of them stop? In fact only they have the power to stop and recover, nobody else. They have to want to get the help and do the hard work to get sober and most of them are a bit shy when it comes to hard work.
After 10 years of seeing an alcoholic ruin my family and reduce us all to nervous wrecks , I have very little pity for those who chose to indulge their addiction and every sympathy for those who have to continually pick up the pieces after them.

@LindorDoubleChoc , I'm
Pleased your DF is sober now, you are right it is a choice every day (DOI recovering alcoholic, sober 7 years) but it gets easier. From being a battle every 5 mins it's now only once in a while the idea of having a drink comes to me.
So every day he does sober is a day towards it getting easier

But they do turn into a monster and it affects the people around them and they don't give a shit.

The first part of that sentence is correct - they do turn into a monster and it affects the people around them.

The second - for some it probably is, but for the addicts I have met (and I have met many) they absolutely do give a shit. They are miserable, filled with self loathing and absolutely not living their best lives.

As for the question of choice: one of the alcoholics in recovery on my original thread said it best the first drink is a choice. After that, the drink takes over. Not taking that first drink is hard and it never becomes 100% easy. My Dsis' partner is coming up 13 years sober but he still considers himself to be in recovery and he knows he needs to not choose that first drink.

You've tagged the wrong person.

No I prefer to let posts like that stand As a pp said, this thread is an eye opener.

Your forgiveness and empathy will save you from the same fate. Sorry to hear about your mum 😢

Yes

Do alcoholics cause their alcoholism? No, I do not believe they do. Yes some are too weak to fight it off, but that doesn’t mean they caused it.

Christ on a bike 🤦🏼‍♀️

Of course they caused it. Who poured the alcohol into their throat?

You will be hard pressed to find an alcoholic who didn't cause their own alcoholism. Find me one and I'll give you my lifes savings.

Some people are genetically predisposed to addiction, it's not their fault. Addicts suffer hugely and they should be treated with empathy. For many addiction can be like being possessed.

Alcoholism is a big problem of the Atlantic seaboard countries so Ireland, Scotland, Norway. I’m pretty sure this is the case so most likely a genetic link.

Interesting. So people who are addicted to theft should be treated with empathy because they suffer hugely? And people addicted to porn should be treated with empathy because of how much they suffer? And drug addicts should be treated with empathy because of how much they suffer?

I notice there is no mention of personal responsibility or how much addicts' behaviour hurts other people. No empathy for them and what they suffer, eh?

And I think you mean sympathy, not empathy, which is an entirely different approach.

Isn’t it? Unsurprising though judging by past performance on this thread.

They enjoy getting drunk - it’s fun and nice to them.

You obviously have no idea what an alcoholic is - either that or you’re just a troll.

Solidarity, it's so tough. NACOA charity helps.

There’s me. My alcoholic mum drank while pregnant with me. Then she added booze to my formula because I was a “fussy baby”. She drank all through all her pregnancies. Shall I continue? Needless to say I was an alcoholic before I was born as were my younger siblings (I’m the eldest). One of them has FASD quite badly. Would you like me to PM you my sort code and account number now?

Breakfast was lager poured on a bowl of Cheerios for primary school. My mum force fed us alcohol.

But hey, I see now, I’m a monster. With all the power and the choice and it was as easy as clicking my heels like Dorothy in Oz and going “just say no” for me to overcome the addiction I was born into.

That’s awful @SwitchDiver. I’m so sorry that happened to you. 💐

Alcoholics are desperate people and they are desperate to believe that they are better than they are. And if you don't believe them, then it's all your fault and it's poor them, pour myself a drink.

They have high levels of self loathing and should be pitied but never ever take one at face value. You will be disappointed

@Violet143 you owe @SwitchDiver a massive grovelling apology. We all understand how much your mother has hurt you and caused havoc in your life, but you can't generalise like that.

There is so much anger and hurt on this thread. I am assuming the majority is heartfelt and genuine, in which case therapy is essential for those people. I think some is just plain old prejudice, and that's really shocking.

I'd rather have my damaged, alcoholic, desperately ill sibling in my life than some of the posters on here.

Violet, how long did you give Al-anon a go? I'm really surprised by your take home from it and that you cant stomach another session because you're sick of people excusing alcoholics behaviour.

That's not what Al-anon is about at all. Both Al-anon and AA do not make excuses for an active alcoholics behaviour. AA does not think that an active alcoholics absolutely selfish and often disgusting behaviour is okay or that it should just be forgiven because it's "not their fault". Al-Anon does not say that active alcoholics should be endlessly supported with love and kindness and sympathy at all costs.

People can believe that someone who has alcoholism has an illness that they are unable to control, whilst still hating their behaviour, thinking it is selfish (it is) and not wanting that person in their life and cutting them off.

Alcoholism is a selfish illness. It makes people incredibly selfish, self obsessed and self involved. Active alcoholics behaviour can be diabolical. I say that as a recovering alcoholic, who's behaviour was frequently diabolical. I don't expect everyone who I have "wronged" to forgive me. If I had children while I was in active alcoholism (I didn't) I certainly wouldn't expect them to just forgive me and invite me back into their lives, and AA wouldn't expect them to, or ask them to or even necessarily want them to!!

When members in AA share about the extreme damage they have done to their children and say that they still want nothing to do with them now they are sober, NO ONE in AA is thinking , awww but they should forgive you, it wasn't your fault, you had an excuse! NO ONE thinks that way.

Al-Anon isn't about forgiving the active alcoholic and just accepting their shit behaviour. sure, it is about helping the family member to better understand the illness so they can hopefully accept and come to terms with the fact that they have absolutely no influence or control in whether that person drinks again or whether that person accepts help or recovery.
It's to help the family member build their own self esteem and self worth after probably years of harm and abuse. To help the family member detach from the active alcoholic and move on without guilt, if that's what is needed. To help them realise they don't need to be a punching bag for the active alcoholic. To better their lives!!

I'm sorry you seemed to have gone to a particular group where this wasn't the case but it is not reflective of Al/anon as a whole. I'd urge you to give it another try. I repeat, it is not something designed to get sympathy for the alcoholic or sit around giving excuses for active alcoholics !!! It's all about the family member and how they can become empowered and not let the alcoholic dominate and control their lives.

In AA we often express sympathy when we think of people we know who have relapsed, or people we know who "just can't seem to get it" and are still drinking. We express sympathy because to us it is sad that they live that way when we know there is a "solution". No one sane would want to live that way, active alcoholics are not sane. Which prevents them from seeing that there is a way out or a solution.

But as much as we feel sympathy for the active alcoholic, we feel even more concern and sympathy for the family of the alcoholic. We understand that those are who really suffer in this.

Not as much as mine unless you also are one.