An alcoholic returning to booze after sobriety is a choice not a damn disease

[Violet143]

So it ends. A blissful 9 months of abstinence where it felt as though I finally had some semblance of a mother back for the first time in 15 years. She reached rock bottom last year and was hospitalised, went through medical detox etc. I broke NC of almost a year and supported her, like a mug, as she really seemed to have had a wake up call. She had counselling, at my expense. She was upfront that the drinking was boredom and habit, not some massive trauma response.

Last week she made the conscious choice, whilst in complete sobriety, to return to the booze. Why? She was bored and didn't have much "in her life" ...other than supportive children and grandchildren who love her, as worthless as we are.

I've heard alcoholism referred to as a disease, just like cancer, except you don't go and buy more cancer from the corner shop when it runs out - do you?

It's a choice, especially when you don't have the additional complication of physical addiction to contend with.

I'm so sick and tired of all of the excusing the behaviour and this is exactly why I couldn't stomach another session of Al anon.

Do you strongly disagree if so why?

I have lived experience of addicts. So I hope you feel that my view is valid.

I don’t think it’s anger and resentment. I think it’s personal experience of watching someone make a choice, week after week after week. How they’ll only ever consider stopping when it affects them negatively, but they rarely give a shit about how it affects the people around them.

And frankly I think calling it a ‘disease’ is delusion. It’s less painful, isn’t it? To believe that your parent or partner or whatever is a helpless victim of a disease rather than facing the fact that they’re a selfish and weak person who prioritises alcohol, and the way it makes them feel, over their loved ones, day after day. It’s like when a kid whose parent has left creates a fantasy version of the parent who deserted them.

I think I probably used to feel like you do but I am more compassionate now. But I've had a LOT of therapy!

It’s less painful, isn’t it? To believe that your parent or partner or whatever is a helpless victim of a disease rather than facing the fact that they’re a selfish and weak person who prioritises alcohol, and the way it makes them feel, over their loved ones, day after day.

That isn’t true - or at least not in every case. My bloke’s the classic Jekyll and Hyde. The person he is when he drinks is completely different to the sober version. It’s a disease all right

And frankly I think calling it a ‘disease’ is delusion. It’s less painful, isn’t it? To believe that your parent or partner or whatever is a helpless victim of a disease rather than facing the fact that they’re a selfish and weak person who prioritises alcohol, and the way it makes them feel, over their loved ones, day after day.

Except that you’re the one framing alcoholism as a moral failing and using the language of belief when science has proven it is in fact a disease with a genetic component and it is an addiction with physical withdrawal symptoms that can be fatal.

Does anyone on here, saying that those with alcohol use disorder (easiest way to put it) actually wants to put their family and friends through hell? Did I actively want to cause so much upset and distress to my daughter and husband and mother? Did I want to be in so much mental anguish, all I could do to get rid of it was drink and drink and drink?

I can assure I didn't. It was both an addiction and an enemy of the nastiest sort. I will never be able to properly forgive myself for what I did to people - and I'll go through the rest of my life knowing that something made me do it - it would now, as I'm years and years sober and coming to terms with the pain that made me want to block it out initially - be a choice to pick that first drink up yes; but in the midst of it there is no rational thought to make that choice

Which is absolutely not saying the OP shouldn't cut her mother off - she should. I'm amazed no-one cut me off completely, I was a fucking nightmare!

I don’t deny it has a genetic component, as well as environmental components, but tons of aspects of human behaviour have both genetic and environmental components, as well as strong elements of choice.

Is it a choice? Is it a choice when your first drink was given to you as a child by your alcoholic parents?

Yeah, it’s the same with pretty much all alcoholics. But they aren’t two separate people, as much as it might be easier to believe that. Jekyll is a weak individual who makes the choice - daily, weekly, monthly - to pick up a drink and become Hyde.

I have a very good friend who is a recovered alcoholic. She would call it a disease (she finds it helpful to frame it as a disease in part to understand why she can never drink again) but a disease she had to make an active choice to recover from.

I believe, from 30+ years of watching an (enabled) alcoholic parent return to it again and again and again, that it’s a choice and not a disease. But with that said, I do also believe that no human choice is made in a vacuum - our choices are influenced by our circumstances, our genetics, our pasts and our trauma.

My alcoholic parent has had appalling trauma in their life and has serious mental health problems (and mental illness I do fully accept is a disease). But it’s a choice to turn to alcohol to treat it, and to perpetuate trauma.

I struggled on this concept when doing my counselling, I still struggle, however like a pp says, the addict may find it better to reframe addiction to disease in recovery.

Its a bit similar to when they say paedophilia is an illness.....nope....its a choice.

Being an alcoholic is not similar to being a pedophile

Quite. This thread’s quite something.

...helpless victim of a disease rather than facing the fact that they’re a selfish and weak person

Aren't we all weak and selfish? Who genuinely never is?
Why be weak about alcohol?
Why not be weak about sex, gambling, theft, designer clothes, sugary foods? If you think alcoholism is a choice, why do they "choose" booze not something funner & nicer?

I think because they enjoy getting drunk - it is fun and nice to them - and because the nature of the addiction relates to whatever need the addict is seeking to address. So for example sex addiction is typically related to low self-esteem and a need for external validation.

Why.... Both are made by choice and actions.

I'm actually saddened by the amount of vitriol being thrown at people in addiction here. Life with an addict is horrific, and as a wife, husband, child, sibling or whatever you have every right to step away and put yourself first. But this vilification is dreadful. Falling into addiction isn't a simple matter of choice; it's complex, multifactorial and hard to untangle. I fully understand the anger people feel at the effects an addict has on the lives of others. I've felt it myself. That doesn't mean the person in addiction is some kind of subhuman monster.

I think it varies. My mum died after a long time as a serious alcoholic (sometimes dry, most times soaking wet)!

Looking back, I do see her as a bit of a victim. But possibly that's easier once someone passes away, sad as that is. She had a lot of issues starting in her late forties / early fifties. Until then she was just the loveliest mum. She had a lot going for her definitely. A family and no shortage of money, lovely friends etc. But I think going through menopause, losing her looks as she perceived it (she was renowned as a real stunner and still looked beautiful to me when she wasn't drinking especially), eating disorders, work stress, a few marital issues and empty nest syndrome all combined and she just couldn't cope with life, so she escaped into a bottle. I have a lot of empathy for her and don't feel angry towards her at all. I'm very keen not to fall into the same pattern though obviously

I don’t think addiction is either a choice or a disease…. it’s a thing of its own.

alcoholics who are sober are not better or cured, they’re battling their addiction daily and sometimes they can’t battle it any more.

my dad is an alcoholic - sober a year next week. I am so happy he’s currently sober but live in absolute fear (?) that one day he’ll not be able to keep going with it. I don’t consider it a choice, more like his capacity to keep on track. I don’t think it gets easier after time, I think every day is another challenge to face.

If people are angry at the alcoholic in their life then that's understandable imo. I doubt you would have divorced your husband if you weren't angry about his alcoholism. You've posted reams about it on Mumsnet. I saw very little sympathy or understanding from you. Mostly anger, impatience and sadness. This is what is being expressed on this thread. You don't do Relative Of An Alcoholic best.

What a mean post.

This doesn’t answer your question, but I would recommend Al-Anon for you.

Something I would say about alcoholism, and whether or not it’s a choice, relates to enabling. Enabling an alcoholic is a well-known issue - it’s when someone, typically a family member, shields an alcoholic from the consequences of their behaviour, thereby creating a situation where the alcoholic has no incentive to stop drinking. That, to me, isn’t consistent with it being ‘a disease’, but it is consistent with it being a choice.

And consistent with that, on the handful of occasions I went to AA with my alcoholic parent and listened to people telling their stories, I was struck by how no one woke up one day and decided to stop drinking for the sake of their loved ones. The starting point was always something that happened to them as a result of their drinking - their spouse leaving; being arrested for drink-driving; having an accident; losing a job, etc.

Who? Did you read the OP? She's done her time with Al-Anon by the looks of it "I'm so sick and tired of all of the excusing the behaviour and this is exactly why I couldn't stomach another session of Al anon".

@LindorDoubleChoc It's perfectly possible to be angry with someone for the harm their addiction has caused you and the people you love, and that is a perfectly reasonable position. But that isn't the same as saying addiction is a choice and addicts are weak, selfish people. That's simplistic and I have never felt that way about my late husband. I have hated him, I have been relieved when he died, I have felt a fresh resurgence of my anger at him when my DC revealed the emotionally abusive things he did when I was not there. But I have never extrapolated any of that to 'addicts are weak and selfish and it's a choice'.

If you've really read my original threads when I was going through it all, you should know that - or otherwise your reading comprehension needs work.

OP's mother was 9 months sober when she drank again. That's a relapse. They happen. Going fully no contact as a result is a completely valid step to take.
But none of that warrants simplistic statements about what is a very complex and multifactorial disorder.