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An alcoholic returning to booze after sobriety is a choice not a damn disease

361 replies

Violet143 · 22/05/2023 16:56

So it ends. A blissful 9 months of abstinence where it felt as though I finally had some semblance of a mother back for the first time in 15 years. She reached rock bottom last year and was hospitalised, went through medical detox etc. I broke NC of almost a year and supported her, like a mug, as she really seemed to have had a wake up call. She had counselling, at my expense. She was upfront that the drinking was boredom and habit, not some massive trauma response.

Last week she made the conscious choice, whilst in complete sobriety, to return to the booze. Why? She was bored and didn't have much "in her life" ...other than supportive children and grandchildren who love her, as worthless as we are.

I've heard alcoholism referred to as a disease, just like cancer, except you don't go and buy more cancer from the corner shop when it runs out - do you?

It's a choice, especially when you don't have the additional complication of physical addiction to contend with.

I'm so sick and tired of all of the excusing the behaviour and this is exactly why I couldn't stomach another session of Al anon.

Do you strongly disagree if so why?

OP posts:
SwitchDiver · 23/05/2023 16:04

TallulahBetty · 23/05/2023 08:45

Agreed. And I also do not subscribe to the idea that it is a disease.

Anyone who disagrees, clearly hasn't lived with an alcoholic.

I’ve lived with three alcoholics in my family. It’s a disease. You can disagree if you like, but I’ll stick with what the WHO and doctors say about alcoholism.

GracePalmer33 · 23/05/2023 16:08

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 23/05/2023 15:53

I don't think that alcoholics necessarily had to have had trauma in their childhoods. I know plenty of people in AA who say they had very blessed childhoods.

Not necessarily true though - not saying everyone is lying, just that people don't always recognise that something wrong was done to them or that a situation was inappropriate. Or they just don't remember.

I definitely think there is a correlation between people who have suffered through trauma and people who use alcohol as a coping mechanism. All im saying it I can't say 100% that everyone who is an alcoholic has had trauma in their childhoods. There's people on this thread who have said they haven't so im not going to argue with them and insist they have. And if they haven't I believe they can still be an alcoholic despite not having trauma, meaning that it is not a requirement of alcoholism. Does that make sense? But I agree that many alcoholics have experienced trauma. And use alcohol as a way of dealing with that trauma. I also believe that people use alcohol as a way of dealing with a mental illness and I believe you can be born with a mental illness and it doesn't have to have resulted from trauma.

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 23/05/2023 16:17

@GracePalmer33

Agreed!

And co-occurring substance misuse and mental illness is an issue, often with people self-medicating. And in the past (hopefully less now), people would find that mental health services wouldn't help them until they had their substance misuse issues under control and substance misuse services wouldn't help them until their mental health issues were under control...

2bazookas · 23/05/2023 16:17

I've heard alcoholism referred to as a disease, just like cancer, except you don't go and buy more cancer from the corner shop when it runs out - do you?

It's a poor analogy, but since you introduced it; alcoholism remission is perhaps similar to cancer remission.

You've done everything right. Its all come good. You think you're back on your feet, back on firm ground again.

You've just learned to walk the tight-rope. Don't look down.

allthewoes · 23/05/2023 16:22

Totally agree.

I've got a friend who's been at death's door several times through alcohol. Keeps getting admitted to hospital every few months, they detox and stabilise, come out. Then start drinking again.

I don't understand why the nhs is continuing to treat them, must be costing them a fortune and it's just a waste of resources.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 23/05/2023 16:23

I actually don’t think whether it is a disease or discussion around trauma and choice is that helpful in the circumstances of the OP. The point is an addict, alcoholic, whatever you want to term them as is responsible for themselves. One of my favourite sayings since I started my own AF journey (and I was addicted, make no mistake - a bottle of wine at least a day for over 10 years and had some physical withdrawal too) is “it’s not my fault but it is my responsibility”

CandlelightGlow · 23/05/2023 16:30

Haven't read the comments.

Um, I believe this is called relapse. Addiction is a disease and it is complicated. Addicts don't relapse and then say oh yes look at me I've relapsed.

There is a complicated web of denial, deflection, deception and self deception at play. It can be along the lines of "I've learned to moderate" or "I'm not a bad drunk so what's the big deal" or "I only drink it's not like I do heroin".

It is not a choice like you would choose to either go to the swimming pool or the cinema at the weekend and I think you know that.

It's natural to be angry in the face of addicts seeming to choose the lifestyle they are living, trust me I am literally going through it with a close relative right now, but at the end of the day as much as they will tell you or themselves otherwise, addiction is not free will. It is the very opposite of that.

CandlelightGlow · 23/05/2023 16:32

I don't understand why the nhs is continuing to treat them, must be costing them a fortune and it's just a waste of resources

Jesus that is cold.

Tortiemiaw · 23/05/2023 16:47

'Them' could be your mum, dad, sister, brother, child. Nasty.

CreationNat1on · 23/05/2023 16:56

Life is trauma, we all experience it.

Why do some people become addicted, trauma is universal?

Clarabell77 · 23/05/2023 17:07

CreationNat1on · 23/05/2023 12:00

Quick post to say there are plenty of alcoholics that the never ending party machine is the driving force behind their addiction, not trauma.

The I m a better, more fun, more entertaining partier than you, followed by now you need to make excises for me because I'm now an addict type person is effing exhausting. They are not all masking hidden traumas.

I don’t think alcoholics care much about parties.

PamelaShipman80 · 23/05/2023 17:17

Hope you’ve gotten on ok with your appointment today OP! My mother is exactly the same I’ve been no contact for 4 years - happiest I’ve been!! I also worry about how I react when the inevitable happens - I’m emotionally detached from her and I don’t think for a second I’ll crumble when she goes, but I do worry a little while down the line it’ll cause a breakdown and hit me.

Violet143 · 23/05/2023 17:27

2bazookas · 23/05/2023 16:17

I've heard alcoholism referred to as a disease, just like cancer, except you don't go and buy more cancer from the corner shop when it runs out - do you?

It's a poor analogy, but since you introduced it; alcoholism remission is perhaps similar to cancer remission.

You've done everything right. Its all come good. You think you're back on your feet, back on firm ground again.

You've just learned to walk the tight-rope. Don't look down.

Poor analogy you say, tell that to the thousands of people who trot it out as a comparison in their attempt to absolve an alcoholic of their personal responsibility.

OP posts:
Violet143 · 23/05/2023 17:28

I’ve lived with three alcoholics in my family. It’s a disease. You can disagree if you like, but I’ll stick with what the WHO and doctors say about alcoholism.

Ah yes the WHO, they were absolutely fantastic during covid weren't they. Is that also the same WHO said they don't actually know what a disease is ?

OP posts:
Violet143 · 23/05/2023 17:35

PamelaShipman80 · 23/05/2023 17:17

Hope you’ve gotten on ok with your appointment today OP! My mother is exactly the same I’ve been no contact for 4 years - happiest I’ve been!! I also worry about how I react when the inevitable happens - I’m emotionally detached from her and I don’t think for a second I’ll crumble when she goes, but I do worry a little while down the line it’ll cause a breakdown and hit me.

It went well thank you :-)

It's good to see that in black and white, that you've been the happiest you've ever been for cutting her off. I found my stress levels massively lowered when I wasn't running around after her and checking on her all of the time. I felt I had emotionally disconnected a fair bit so I'm kicking myself for getting involved again.

People have mentioned co dependency and that was definitely true once upon a time but I don't feel that's a factor anymore. I cut her off before and have now done it again without a shadow of a doubt that it's the right thing to do.

I have exactly the same worry as you about her passing triggering a break down. A PP upthread went through exactly that as she felt she hadn't dealt with everything beforehand and reccomended counselling in advance and processing all unresolved feelings. I'm definitely going to consider doing that myself. I have 3 kids I can't afford to go down with the ship.

Do you have contact with anyone who has contact with her? I have it a bit easier in that sense as there are no other relatives on the scene that I have anything to do with.

OP posts:
lisbeth1 · 23/05/2023 17:37

I have a slightly different perspective as I do think it is a disease and in knowing that, perhaps you can understand it is the addiction (disease), rather than your mother, that chooses to behave in this way. It could help you understand that it's nothing to do with you or how worthy or not you are to her, rather this evil, cruel illness is the puppet-master. For example, it's not the same (and is more treatable) but I have OCD and no amount of love or logic or sense would have been able to override the diseased part of my brain controlling my compulsions.

It would be lovely if love was enough to stop addiction but if you view it as a disease, maybe that will help you to understand that it's not because you weren't good enough to not drink for. Rather, you deserve all the love and care in the world but unfortunately, your mother has an illness that controls her, rather than the other way around.

However, I understand you feel it is in her control, because the person with the addiction picks up the drink and drinks it. I can see how that would be so confusing, infuriating and hurtful.

Either way, you don't need our agreement to know that this situation is distressing and awful for you and so, so unfair. You certainly don't deserve this and you are absolutely worthy of all the good things. You do whatever you need to take care of you and don't feel guilty for it. Genuinely sending you all the best in the world, OP.

Blossomtoes · 23/05/2023 17:40

SwitchDiver · 23/05/2023 16:04

I’ve lived with three alcoholics in my family. It’s a disease. You can disagree if you like, but I’ll stick with what the WHO and doctors say about alcoholism.

I spent lockdown imprisoned with an alcoholic. Thankfully he’s been in recovery for over two years now. It’s definitely a disease.

Damnspot · 23/05/2023 17:44

lisbeth1 · 23/05/2023 17:37

I have a slightly different perspective as I do think it is a disease and in knowing that, perhaps you can understand it is the addiction (disease), rather than your mother, that chooses to behave in this way. It could help you understand that it's nothing to do with you or how worthy or not you are to her, rather this evil, cruel illness is the puppet-master. For example, it's not the same (and is more treatable) but I have OCD and no amount of love or logic or sense would have been able to override the diseased part of my brain controlling my compulsions.

It would be lovely if love was enough to stop addiction but if you view it as a disease, maybe that will help you to understand that it's not because you weren't good enough to not drink for. Rather, you deserve all the love and care in the world but unfortunately, your mother has an illness that controls her, rather than the other way around.

However, I understand you feel it is in her control, because the person with the addiction picks up the drink and drinks it. I can see how that would be so confusing, infuriating and hurtful.

Either way, you don't need our agreement to know that this situation is distressing and awful for you and so, so unfair. You certainly don't deserve this and you are absolutely worthy of all the good things. You do whatever you need to take care of you and don't feel guilty for it. Genuinely sending you all the best in the world, OP.

What a lovely post.

Tots678 · 23/05/2023 17:44

I felt like a huge heavy cloud had lifted off my shoulders when formerly alcoholic DF died.
Hadn’t expected that.

SwitchDiver · 23/05/2023 17:47

Violet143 · 23/05/2023 17:28

I’ve lived with three alcoholics in my family. It’s a disease. You can disagree if you like, but I’ll stick with what the WHO and doctors say about alcoholism.

Ah yes the WHO, they were absolutely fantastic during covid weren't they. Is that also the same WHO said they don't actually know what a disease is ?

They were fantastic during Covid. If it were not for the WHO existing, then China would have not reported the existence of Covid, isolated it, or sent samples of it so that scientific studies could be done and vaccines could be made by everyone worldwide. If the WHO had not existed, there would have been no centralised mechanism for information sharing or vaccine donation from us to other countries.

SwitchDiver · 23/05/2023 17:48

lisbeth1 · 23/05/2023 17:37

I have a slightly different perspective as I do think it is a disease and in knowing that, perhaps you can understand it is the addiction (disease), rather than your mother, that chooses to behave in this way. It could help you understand that it's nothing to do with you or how worthy or not you are to her, rather this evil, cruel illness is the puppet-master. For example, it's not the same (and is more treatable) but I have OCD and no amount of love or logic or sense would have been able to override the diseased part of my brain controlling my compulsions.

It would be lovely if love was enough to stop addiction but if you view it as a disease, maybe that will help you to understand that it's not because you weren't good enough to not drink for. Rather, you deserve all the love and care in the world but unfortunately, your mother has an illness that controls her, rather than the other way around.

However, I understand you feel it is in her control, because the person with the addiction picks up the drink and drinks it. I can see how that would be so confusing, infuriating and hurtful.

Either way, you don't need our agreement to know that this situation is distressing and awful for you and so, so unfair. You certainly don't deserve this and you are absolutely worthy of all the good things. You do whatever you need to take care of you and don't feel guilty for it. Genuinely sending you all the best in the world, OP.

Yes five star post 👏

SwitchDiver · 23/05/2023 17:50

Blossomtoes · 23/05/2023 17:40

I spent lockdown imprisoned with an alcoholic. Thankfully he’s been in recovery for over two years now. It’s definitely a disease.

I’m sorry you had that added stress during lockdown, how awful 💐

Violet143 · 23/05/2023 18:00

lisbeth1 · 23/05/2023 17:37

I have a slightly different perspective as I do think it is a disease and in knowing that, perhaps you can understand it is the addiction (disease), rather than your mother, that chooses to behave in this way. It could help you understand that it's nothing to do with you or how worthy or not you are to her, rather this evil, cruel illness is the puppet-master. For example, it's not the same (and is more treatable) but I have OCD and no amount of love or logic or sense would have been able to override the diseased part of my brain controlling my compulsions.

It would be lovely if love was enough to stop addiction but if you view it as a disease, maybe that will help you to understand that it's not because you weren't good enough to not drink for. Rather, you deserve all the love and care in the world but unfortunately, your mother has an illness that controls her, rather than the other way around.

However, I understand you feel it is in her control, because the person with the addiction picks up the drink and drinks it. I can see how that would be so confusing, infuriating and hurtful.

Either way, you don't need our agreement to know that this situation is distressing and awful for you and so, so unfair. You certainly don't deserve this and you are absolutely worthy of all the good things. You do whatever you need to take care of you and don't feel guilty for it. Genuinely sending you all the best in the world, OP.

Thank you for such a kind post ❤️

OP posts:
OopsAnotherOne · 23/05/2023 18:07

Violet143 · 23/05/2023 17:27

Poor analogy you say, tell that to the thousands of people who trot it out as a comparison in their attempt to absolve an alcoholic of their personal responsibility.

For some alcoholics it can be a breakthrough, others use it as an excuse. Your mother seems like she is the latter.

When I was in active addiction, I thought I was hopeless, lazy, incapable etc because I couldn’t manage to stop drinking because I always ended up with a drink in my hand. My mind had convinced me it was fine and as such, I accepted I must just be an incapable person and an alcoholic was just who I was, my personality, I couldn’t escape it. Once someone at AA told me it was a disease I felt like I had something to fight against, something to cure, it wasn’t me it was something wrong with me that I could fix. This was only because I wanted to get better though, I’d wanted to stop drinking long before I managed to.

The flip side is some alcoholics hear “disease” and just completely surrender to it. They seem to think there’s nothing they can do and it’s out of their control as it’s a disease so it’s not their responsibility to fix. This is completely incorrect and it sounds as if your mother sees it this way - she has a disease so it’s not her fault if she starts drinking again, when it really is her decision to make.

I also completely understand from your side, hearing it called a “disease” must be ridiculously frustrating because people with diseases usually want to get better, not make themselves worse. I saw it more as an allergic reaction to alcohol, I didn’t deal with alcohol in the same way others did, my friends could have one or two but once I had one, a switch flicked in my brain and I couldn’t stop. I didn’t feel diseased but I knew I was fighting against something. I found it more of a struggle mentally than anything else.

For me, there is a difference between drinking during active addiction and relapsing during sobriety. Drinking during active addiction is incredibly hard to stop BUT it is possible. You did everything you could to make this possible for your mother. Once someone has started their sobriety and has broken away from the claws of their addictive brain, and has maintained that sobriety for some time, they do have a choice whether or not the decide to start drinking again, much more so than in active addiction. Whether it’s the addiction or their own free will, she had a choice to make which wasn’t clouded by inebriation and she chose alcohol. That is no reflection on you or her children, addicts choose their substance over everything until they finally, genuinely decide they need to change. Some addicts never decide this, whether it’s due to denial or inability, but it’s still a choice.

Your mother is clearly deeply addicted to alcohol and it doesn’t sound like she wants to help herself which is the only way alcoholics can stay dedicated enough to remain sober. Please don’t see this as any fault by yourself, you sound as if you’ve done more than your fair share in trying to help her and have given her plenty of opportunities but if she cannot continuously put the work in herself, she won’t remain sober. Going NC is the best thing you can do OP, therapy rather than Al Anon is a great idea to take the focus away from alcoholism and to build yourself back up, but I really wouldn’t contact your mother again. I really wish you the best, I’ve recently supported my partner though something similar and he also chose NC. He has saved himself a lot of stress and heartache and I really hope you’re able to find peace in knowing you did all you could but had to step back to protect yourself and your children x

slipsand · 23/05/2023 18:42

I think it depends on whether you think mental illness is a disease. Addiction is complex. The alcoholics in my life have had deep rooted mental health problems. My father died at 50 of alcoholic liver disease.