An alcoholic returning to booze after sobriety is a choice not a damn disease

[Violet143]

So it ends. A blissful 9 months of abstinence where it felt as though I finally had some semblance of a mother back for the first time in 15 years. She reached rock bottom last year and was hospitalised, went through medical detox etc. I broke NC of almost a year and supported her, like a mug, as she really seemed to have had a wake up call. She had counselling, at my expense. She was upfront that the drinking was boredom and habit, not some massive trauma response.

Last week she made the conscious choice, whilst in complete sobriety, to return to the booze. Why? She was bored and didn't have much "in her life" ...other than supportive children and grandchildren who love her, as worthless as we are.

I've heard alcoholism referred to as a disease, just like cancer, except you don't go and buy more cancer from the corner shop when it runs out - do you?

It's a choice, especially when you don't have the additional complication of physical addiction to contend with.

I'm so sick and tired of all of the excusing the behaviour and this is exactly why I couldn't stomach another session of Al anon.

Do you strongly disagree if so why?

Agree. I don’t understand how anyone can see the pain and suffering an alcoholic goes through and puts their family through and not see it as a disease. No one would choose that.

Except there are many addicts who go through the process and go into active recovery, some of whom are on this thread. Look at Barry Humphries, Anthony Hopkins, Rob Lowe, Anne Robinson, Russell Brand, Davina McCall etc. They cured themselves. There are millions of others. You can't cure yourself of thousands of other illnesses, no matter what you do. It is substance abuse due to addiction which is a mental illness (which can be overcome although no one is saying it's easy) not a "disease".

Anyway - it doesn't really matter to OP. She wants out and no one can blame her.

Of course there are people in recovery, but they are still alcoholics/addicts, they’re not “cured”.

No they are not cured. They are still addicts. But they can choose to stay healthy in the way that someone with MND or many cancers, for instance, cannot. Disease gives the contagious/helpless label to addicts when actually if they "recover" soon enough their physical health is likely to recover.

And what they have in common is an incredibly healthy bank account and no doubt extensive support networks. There is also, sadly, an even longer list of people who truly wanted to get sober but never managed it and succumbed to their addiction.

I wouldn’t wish living and loving an addict on anyone. I hope the OP is able to get support. However I absolutely do not think it’s as black and white as it being a binary choice. If people could just miraculously choose to get sober then we wouldn’t have to suffer the tragedy of addiction in our society.

And, sadly, relapse is often part of recovery.

Yes but money and all - it's not a DISEASE is it?

Also, OP's mother has had support and got sober once. Anyone telling OP that her mother can't help it because she has a disease is not hearing OP.

I'm so sorry OP. MIL and SIL are alcoholics, we've been through some tough times. I do think of alcoholism as a disease, it's a disease as recognised by the WHO. It's a disease of the mind. I guess it's like saying depression is not an illness. But you're mother regardless of whether it's a disease or not is incredibly selfish.

I'm more sympathic to MIL than DH is as he's been effected by the drinking during his childhood, so many let downs and broken promises.

My belief that alcoholism as an illness is because who would choose to continue drinking when they have final stage liver disease and knowing they'll die a horrible death but continue to drink? Who would choose to lose their business, their family, their home? No-one, that's the answer.

I'm so sorry that you're having to go through with this. You and your children are more than enough but your mother is ill, but also very very selfish.

And yet you CAN cure yourself of thousands of other diseases. The fact is that certain diseases are curable, certain diseases are incurable and certain diseases are curable for some but not all sufferers. There is no requirement that a disease must be incurable to all to be a disease.

Hearing isn’t blindly agreeing, especially when we can sympathise with how anger towards a person who is struggling with a close family member that is an alcoholic can distort your perception as to whether that family member is doing actions that hurt you by choice or by the compulsion of a disease.

Thank you. It was shit squared but I’m still here and he’s now sober - long may it last.

@Endofroadwhatnext It is literally defined as a disease! Coined originally in the 17th century.

I have suffered all my adult life with a sibling suffering alcoholism. I truly think it's choices and/or other psychological problems, However, I struggle very much that you work in MH and are not aware of the medical term & definition of an alcoholic.

You can most definitely argue the disease continues/manifest out of choice, you can most definitely have your own opinions on the causes but you can't argue the actual definition of the word. < mind boggled >

Long May it Last 🤞
He’s got to keep fighting fit (good physical and mental health) and stay plugged into his support network to stay sober. It’s no small task, but doable. My BIL managed it for over thirty years before he passed away from cancer.

Sadly, my other two relatives (generation before me) went through cycles of relapses until they had no fight left and in despair & self loathing committed suicide. They’d been told too that it was “a choice” and that “if they really wanted to stay sober they could” and were often treated coldly or angrily by the wider family for being “wastes of space”. I was a child/teen at the time and watched it unfold and looking back, I really think that more could have been done for them as when they were sober they were lovely.

This.

we all know it’s complex but we all know that the choice to have just that one little drink can change everything

my ex’s mum drove her daughter away and nearly her son (my ex) it wasn’t that they had to pick her up from the police station in her underwear as she had been found roaming the streets, it wasn’t that her children had had to take her numerous times to hospital and begged her to stop drinking it wasn’t that her son thought he had found her dead or that her husband had a breakdown as he could no longer cope, it wasn’t that she pulled a knife out on her daughter when drink. She stopped drinking because she decided she was fed up of drinking

this story isn’t unique the pain and suffering of families isn’t unique it’s is ultimately selfish to make that fist choice knowing and you do know your family will suffer

can argue all you like about it being a disease but you can’t over how utterly selfish that initial choice is when you know the consequences

My understanding is that it’s a compulsive behaviour rather than a choice. It’s also often a response to trauma and I’m not sure how I feel about telling someone who’s suffered trauma everything’s fine because they don’t have a disease whatever that means.

Thats said it must be devastating for their family to have to deal with and I see where OP is coming from.

I think it’s self hate and trying to live with hating yourself which alcohol takes away.
Do we expect anorexics to get a grip and eat the meal?
Or drug addicts to just stop?

I don't know who you mean by "we" however if somebody's anorexia has become so chronic they require a stay as an inpatient at a mental health facility, eating the meals provided is expected yes. Alongside therapy, support etc. I'm certain that the families of people with anorexia expect them to eat.

Drug addicts are expected to stop. Look up the court reports from your local court, when an addict is hauled infront of the magistrates it is made extremely clear that any non custodial sentence comes with the caveat that the addict engages with drug services to address the addiction.

Alcoholics are expected to stop, of course they are, especially in the case of "low functioning" addicts who cause chaos for those around them too.

I haven't said any of this is easy, but it is expected of them.

Thank you @SwitchDiver. You’re absolutely right. Fortunately AA has become a huge part of his life. It’s working wonderfully for him, not least because it’s helped him understand that alcoholism is a disease and not the choice of an awful person.

Just wanted to post in solidarity. You're not an awful person and you're completely right that there is help out there for some who want it, unfortunately lots just cba. They just don't think they or their families are worth it sadly.

Have you looked at any of ACOA (afult children of alcoholics)? You might find some of their resources helpful. There's a lot more focus on the affect this has on YOU rather than focusing on your mum/why she drinks. I found it really helpful to read experiences of others who also have selfish parents.

It was for my BIL too. He was a sponsor of other alcoholics for over twenty years and I think keeping it a huge part of his life is what kept him sober along with the support of his wife and children. She never begrudged him the time he spent on/at AA.

Over 200 people came to his funeral and over half of them were people he had helped through AA over the almost thirty years he was a sponsor- the rest were family as my DH has a large family.

I hope the same success in life for your relative (but not the dying of cancer).

I think it's incredibly complex and not as simple as making a choice....it's easy to judge when it's not you faced with making those choices. But you don't have to hang around and watch if you don't want to - that's your choice. I hope you are able to find some peace, OP.

Nonsense. Take enough of an addictive substance for any reason and it’s likely you’ll become addicted

Not really. If that were true most people would emerge from their late teens/early 20s with an alcohol problem 😂

I’m with you OP, as a fellow child of an alcoholic.

They stop when they want to (usually when their alcoholism starts directly harming them, rather than just harming other people), and they start again when they want to.

It’s a choice. A choice some people find more difficult than others, to be fair. But it’s a choice. And the whole ‘it’s a disease’ narrative is really hard on those of us who’ve had our lives blighted by it.

Yes the choice is made when THEY start falling apart and not during the long lead time when THEY are hurting others and relying on others to manage them and their behaviour (zapping others of their energy-energy vampires).

Their numbing medication makes them numb to the damage they do to others and their compulsion to drink enables them to fob off ALL of the warning signs and the actual verbal warnings.

The alcohol brainwashes them, an alcohol cult.