To think Dh should be able to do bedtimes without me being called up

[Themegapintthingisback]

We have a Dd, 4, we alternate bedtimes, Dd needs us to lie with her for a bit after stories etc, until she falls asleep.
A couple of times a week, there’s some kind of incident and Dd starts crying and wants me, I then come up and lie with her of have to take over. I’m more patient than Dh and he often loses patience with her and tries to hurry her etc/gets cross.
She’s had a slight temp and fever nightmares this week and understandably is nervous to sleep. She’s needed a lot of reassurance and has slept with us all night, which is fine.
Tonight was Dh’s bedtime, I hear Dd crying again and Dh telling her not to be silly, Dd was saying how the shadows of the light shade was scaring her etc, she started to cry badly for me and wouldn’t go to sleep without me. I stayed upstairs with her until she fell asleep (Dh stayed too)
Aibu to expect Dh to be able to to bedtimes and be gentler with Dd
and to just do better, without her always wanting me, or is this normal?

What happens if you want to go out though OP? or you're away for the night/weekend? Your husband needs to feel confident doing the bedtime routine on his own - but yes - he needs to be more patient with her & stop calling her worries 'silly' as that's not kind. My DH would have a slightly different way of doing bedtime routine from the way I would do it. More fun usually 🤣 Mine were quicker as I wanted my tea/a break/my evening to myself. What happens when Grandparents babysit- will they be happy lying with your DD until she falls asleep? I have friends who still had DC co-sharing with them when their kids were 10 🤣 umm, no thanks! That's how marriages break down. Kids should be in their own beds/rooms unless they are poorly or upset etc. I have a friend now who has hubby asleep on sofa & a couple of her DC in her bed/on floor next to bed almost every night. it's no way to live imo. Her kids are 15, 11 & maybe 8/9. It's a no from me!

You are not allowing him.to parent.

that is a very fundamental thing.

Reading your posts it seems that you disagree on how to parent.

But either you have to let him do it his way.

Or if you genuinely believe his way is dangerous, not different but actively dangerous.

Then you need to prevent him parenting at all.

Do you ever insist on something and your child cries? Or is it anything to avoid the tears?

I don’t understand all the criticism - it’s not a big ask to ask a full grown man to be kind to a 4 year old for Gods sake. What’s he going to be like when she’s an annoying 10 year old, teen, whatever? She won’t like him much.

She is already pulling away.

This is a big thing.

It isn't just bedtime, it is a general thing, he is always criticising her.

The bar is always so low on MN, for so many.

In normal family life, children don't pull away from a loving parent that has to discipline them at times.

Children generally accept kind, firm boundaries.

This is not that.

He is an impatient man in a lot of his dealings with her, and the little 4 year old is now responding by withdrawing to protect herself.

She no longer feels safe with her father.

By all means defend this aggressive parenting if thats how you think children should be treated but I certainly wouldn't allow any man be constantly impatient, cross and critical of my children, allowing them to feel unsafe around one of their primary care givers.

The OP is arguing constantly with him about being too harsh.

Ffs, they only have one child.

He wouldn't behave like this with colleagues or anyone else, but his 4 year child is fair game.

I wouldn't be abandoning him to just get on with it, I wouldn't trust him from what the OP has written, to control himself and his irritation.

The child is not an experiment to hope he will calm down with.

All children go through phases of wanting one parent then swapping to the other it's a normal developmental stage.....and of course they always want the parent who gives in to their demands.

@Themegapintthingisback I deliberately didn't put that in my post because it wasn't just to do with our differences in parenting, but no we didn't. He's not a bad man at all, and we get on great now, and now the kids are teens he's great with them, but he just had no fuse at all, with them, or me when he was tired, which unfortunately was most of the time.

One thing I do know, because he's told me, is that he didn't know what he had until he lost it, and if he could go back he'd be a completely different dad. So talk to yours, please, because at least if you do and nothing changes you'll know you did everything that you could.

@MsSquiz
”@SwitchDiver the child might know that mum isn't home, but that won't necessarily mean they then just settle fine for dad if he never does bedtime. I think you're clearly missing my point.”

Your point is you disagree with me on this one thing. I got your point.

In my opinion, a 4yo child will settle just fine with their Dad on a bedtime even if he doesn’t do bedtimes except for on the rare occasion when mum is away. I have seen it happen without exception. I have only seen children not settle fine if it’s for a brand new person like a new babysitter. I think your alarm is misplaced. I don’t agree that there is any need for both parents to split every task to effectively and equally co-parent and saying that parents have to do it or the child won’t settle is objectionable to me. It’s like saying a child will refuse to eat dinner if Dad always cooks if Mum cooks one day. Or a child will refuse to let Dad take them to school one day, if Mum always does it. Children in my experience, are not as inflexible as you are fearing.

To be fair to him it does sounds likes she’s playing up deliberately for attention. 4 year olds shouldn’t need a parent with them to go to sleep and no it won’t just stop on it’s own (I know someone who still sits with their 9 year old every evening and so doesn’t get any time with their partner until 9pm). Parenting is about creating independent adults at the end of the day so gently encouraging them toward that rather than trying to keep them as babies is the aim.

@Themegapintthingisback when DH does bedtime you need to go out for a walk/drive for an hour.

your DD has got you wrapped round her little finger & she knows she doesn’t have to do anything her dad says because you’ll override him & she’ll get her own way!

you might not agree with his methods, but if you love him and trust him, you need to let him get on with it. Especially if it results in the desired outcome of DD going to bed more efficiently.
alternatively if you’re going to drag it out and/or allow DD to drag it out you either need to start it sooner or accept you won’t have an evening.

speaking from personal experience, if you put your foot down & get your DD to bed sooner, or let your DH do it, you’ll probably find the extra sleep makes your daughter less tearful over the following evenings. She’s probably just shattered and by engaging with her you’re keeping her awake & making it worse.
you need to be brave for a week or two & then enjoy the benefits.

You need to let him parent his way.

In our house we have an agreement that all feelings are OK, but all behaviours are not Ok.

example, it ok to be sad at bedtime and cry. It’s not ok to throw, hit or say mean things.

plus, if we tell DS off and he cries because of the telling off we don’t also tell him off for being upset and crying, we let him have those feelings.

it’s such a tricky line to follow but we try.

DH grew up with being told off for crying. (Being told off for being naughty AND THEN being told of for getting upset by the telling off) Even though he agrees that is something we don’t want to do with our children he still reverts to doing it sometimes. it’s hard to unlearn what we are taught as children.
This has resulted in DS favouring me at bedtime because I’m gentler with his feelings. It’s lead to some rows because DH is upset when he gets pushed away. He thinks I’m pushing him out, I think he’s overly harsh. Neither of us think we are getting it right.

…..anyway. It’s not easy OP, I think the first step in work together as parents is showing and admitting vulnerability. A conversation we had where we both admitted we didn’t have the answer but were trying our best brought us back together as a team.

The threat of consequences never worked with mine. If I said "Do XXX now please or we aren't going to soft play tomorrow" they'd just say "Fine, I don't want to go to soft play anyway", or whatever it is. "No X tomorrow" = "OK, I won't have X tomorrow". They would just accept the consequences and carry on with whatever behaviour I was trying to stop. Some children are very difficult and all the things you'd expect them to respond to, they don't.

You sound like one of these mums that makes a rod for her own back and then complains about it.

Stop babying your FOUR year old
No more laying with her until she falls asleep. You are not doing her ANY favours. Nor yourself. Nor your husband. Nor your marriage.

You have created this issue. And now your are enabling it.

Stop enabling it!!

@SparklyBlackKitten You sound like a treat. I wish you could be my friend so that when I want advice you could minimise my problems. 😎

Four in the grand scheme of a child's life is tiny, they are still tiny. You only get one shot with them to do it, the time goes very quickly. Before you know it they are out the door. I spend a lot of time with my son at bedtime, chatting reading etc, because I won't get that time back. I can always watch TV on catch up!

Which is fine if you're the one always doing bedtime but many don't want to spend 2 hours or more laying in the dark after a long day at work then come down to chores. The op is insisting her husband does this with no thought to his wishes it's time to compromise....if she wants to keep her baby then she should do bedtime everyday or make a plan to change it....there are many stuck with doing this for years all night long

OP doesn’t say it takes two hours, though? She says “she generally falls asleep pretty soon after having stories and cuddling up, then he has the rest of the time to himself,” and from everything else she says about her impatient husband, it sounds as though he wants a robot, not a child, that he can simply switch off at bedtime. Spending 15 minutes or whatever with your kid doing a story, a cuddle and letting her fall asleep feeling safe because a parent is there is not “all night long” or something to be stuck with. It takes most adults a while to drift off, and many have sleep crutches: I have to have it pitch black and it takes me 20 minutes from closing my eyes to fall asleep; DP has to have a podcast on a headband headphone thing. OP’s DD has a parent. If it took two hours I’d agree a change needs to be made; but unless OP can clarify, I’m reading it that it doesn’t take nearly that long, he’s just a grumpy daddy and she cries out for mummy because daddy so clearly doesn’t want to be there for even a minute.

He doesn't have to lay with her, but he shouldn't snap at a four year old. Very simply put mummy likes to lie down, daddy will read you stories, kiss cuddle and goodnight. No.snapping required. Reading op's posts which some people seem to be ignoring, this man has zero patience and no understanding of child development.

It seems extra mollycoddling to stay with a four year old while she goes to sleep each night. Parents can be instructive and patient and consistant with getting ready for bed, share a prayer or bed time story, a chat about tomorrow or whatever then the child is usually left.
It takes a few weeks for a baby to be left alone but usually by two years old they are pretty okay with their own company unless they are sick.
Your husband might find it easier to stay gentle for the entire time without becoming irritated if the time were to be shorter.
There is no room for grumpy Dad, I agree, but stern/firm Dad or Mum in the right circumstances is often necessary.

Yeah OP specifically said it doesn't take long for her to fall asleep. I wouldn't want to spend two hours lying beside my DD either and that would be an issue we needed to solve, but she's asleep within 10 minutes of lights out, and if I can't spare 10 mins to cuddle my DD and make her feel safe and comfy at the end of the day then something has gone wrong with my priorities. She's asleep by 7.15 so I have whole evening to myself.

So you think when she's 6 it will still be quick ...your props are what your parents gave you the same for your husband needing noise (effective a story)....we don't all have props for sleeping healthy sleep patterns are self soothing so we can resettle when we wake at night.
I read any signs of anger being around mums insistence it's her way or he's wrong and baby can't do what's been asked because she's too this or that not his general attitude to his child.
A 4 year old will be in school soon and will be expected to do what is asked when it's asked the excuses and baby attitude will not go down well and one of the reasons teachers are saying the current in takes are not as independent or mature as pre Covid.
4 year olds are not babies this continual holding back doesn't help them.

She’s absolutely fine and perfectly ready for school, where I don’t anticipate the teachers needing to sit with her at bedtime while she goes to sleep, unless school has changed a lot since I went. She does what’s asked when asked, dresses herself independently, any messing around at bedtime then we leave the room. She has started to request we leave her to do it by herself half the time anyway, so she’s weaning herself off needing us. She also resettles herself throughout the night and sleeps through 13 hours a night, so it’s not a prop. And if it’s ever a problem, we’ll make a change. But it’s not currently a problem nor do I anticipate it being, because I do an effective boundary enforcement when needed. Bedtime cuddles with a four year old – small in the grand scheme of things – is not babying her or holding her back. If it doesn’t work for you, fine, but the sweeping generalisations and “four? In my day they were up chimneys earning their keep by now” is really weird.

I’d go out for a walk or to gym or shopping etc. leave him to it on his night not you hovering.

But I’m worried to as he’s too harsh

Telling her she's being silly, or insisting she stops messing about doesn't sound too harsh to me. Interesting how you added worse behaviours only after people disagreed with you and now he's turned into a nasty, shouty, bullying daddy.

I'm the firm one in our house. If my boys wanted to mess about at bedtime they knew to ask daddy to put them to bed. If I put them to bed it would be a quick 10 minute job after stories and cuddles, if dh did it it would be at least an hour. Same with tidying up, or getting ready to go out.

They are in their 20s now, living at home, working. I treat them as adults and don't do any domestics for them at all (unless they ask for a favour or something specific) DH picks up after them, does their laundry, empties the dishwasher (their job). If I ask them to do something they just do it, if DH asks they flutter their eyelashes and say awww really dad and he says ah no it's ok I'll do it 🙄 then moans about how much he has to do. Zero sympathy from me.

However, it's not really the style of parenting that's the problem, or even that you both parent differently, but the conflict it's creating in your marriage. You and your dh need to work out how to resolve your differences without including the DC.