Dog walker killed by her own XL Bully Breed dog.

[BethDuttonsTwin]

NOT a pack of 8 dogs as was reported repeatedly with concurrent complete slating of all professional dog walkers.

Absolutely awful. So many of us who have worked with dogs knew this would be the outcome and that packs of 8 dogs do not behave in this way.

After investigations are complete we are now told that the only dog destroyed was the walkers own XL Bully Breed dog. Over and over again it is these dogs and still today I see a man strutting around my locale with two of these type dogs, both unneutered and off lead 🤷🏼‍♀️

Trigger warning: dead animals

https://www.animals24-7.org/2018/05/17/how-tabloids-turned-the-pits-who-killed-tracy-garcia-into-dachshunds/

LadyRos, according to the United Kennel Club, the present day American Bully breed is a hybrid influenced by the American Bulldog, English Bulldog and Olde English Bulldogge.

As Sarvanga38 said, the dogs that killed Tracy Garcia were not Dachshunds, it just made a better story because it would be unusual. They were small, but clearly pit bull and pit mixes.

Too many stupid people own dogs that they are ill equipped to care for properly, whether that is due to lack of capability, lack of money or inappropriate living conditions. Too many dogs live in terrible conditions with terrible owners, and many more are living in 'ok' conditions - not terrible but not really that good either.

The genie is well out of the bottle in terms of improving the situation though. So pp can wang on about how great they are, how wonderful their dog is and take personal affront at any suggestion that issues are more prevalent around particular breeds, but it doesn't change anything for the dogs living in terrible conditions.

Olde English Bulldogge

Who, in the name of God, gives a "breed" of dog a name like this?

Stupid, pretentious twonks.

I'm not aware that this breed (XL Bully) is especially aggressive. But I'm aware that their size and strength, and particularly the strength of their bite, makes them extremely dangerous if they do attack. Which is why I'd never, ever own one

"You're a lot less likely to encounter a bully, but if you do, it's much more likely to bite"

I'm not sure there's good evidence to back this up. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2011/aug/03/elaine-boyer/are-pit-bulls-more-aggressive-other-dogs/

"The two types of pit bulls (the American Pit Bull Terrier and American Staffordshire Terrier) they’ve studied have aggression scores that are not as bad as boxers, bulldogs, collies, Great Danes, Greyhounds and Shetland sheepdogs. They are in the same range as the German Shepherd and golden retriever. Labrador retrievers scored better than pit bulls.

"On an even playing field, a pit bull is no more dangerous than a collie," said Salliann Comstock, the society’s chief tester and director of operations.

Comstock contends pit bulls are trained to be aggressive and argues many people, including some animal shelter workers, mistake other animals for pit bulls."

My local news website has a feature on a dogs charity with adoption hopefuls. There are six dogs:
One imported stray
Two staffy- crosses
One xl bully
A greyhound and a saluki - both high prey-driven

What could possibly go wrong?

That's an American opinion piece. No factual basis.

@izimbra I wasn't arguing that they're inherently more aggressive, but that they're more likely to bite, under current circumstances. The quotes you give don't contradict that. They acknowledge that there is no level playing field and that these breeds may be trained to bite more.

In terms of examining the stats on dog bites, I think there's a lot going on:
How many of each breed are there?
Is the breed correctly identified?
What's its socialisation and training been like?
Does its bite strength mean its more likely to turn up in the stats?

Part of the problem is that we don't really know how often dogs are biting. The numbers are probably a triangle, with a comparatively large number of minor bites at the bottom, that don't require treatment and so don't show up in that stats. That then rises through bites that do require treatment up the small number of fatalities at the top.

I don't think these are inherently bad dogs in some way. I've known some really lovely SBTs for example. But the thing with bull breeds and mastiffs is they are large and powerful and they do seem to attract owners who cannot cope with this. And I've had to split up fights between these dogs. It's a horrific thing to do. I don't know if you've witnessed those kinds of fights but you can hear the flesh ripping. It's fucking grim.

Indeed @Sarvanga38 !

It really isn’t about aggression.

Let’s say someone did a study on fish, and concludes all fish will bite humans. So there is no difference between swimming in the sea where minnows will nibble your toes and where a great white shark will bite you. They will both bite you! So what’s the difference?

Can people honestly not see how stupid this insistence that some types of dog are no more dangerous than others is? Maybe some Yorkies are nasty. I accept that, I’ve known some horrid ones. Maybe some minnows harbour a deep desire to eat human flesh. Having an aggressive temperament isn’t enough in itself, it is the sheer ability to do damage.

Try upping your reading comprehension - UKC will register damn near anything if theres enough demand, which is why they're not considered a particularly reputable dog registry across the rest of the world. They register breeds no one else recognises as breeds (even in that types country of origin!).

I said the AKC do not recognised or register the APBT. Only the American Staffordshire Terrier.

AmStaffs reg with the AKC can be dual registered, as APBT with the UKC.

I did not discuss AKC registration of American Bulldogs at all as I was explaining that Pitbull/pitbull type ownership stats are skewed, because so many are not registered as such with the organisations that provide the data being used.

Yes. They need banning along with American bulldogs and all the other “pit bull alternatives”

The Leonberger was not problematic. It featured on a puppy training program when it was a puppy … it chewed stuff and was bitey … because it was a puppy. It also had a useless owner who should have had a goldfish instead.

Why do you think nobody mentioned the presence of an XL bully when the story first came out?

Because it would be fucking obvious from the start that yet another person had been killed by an XL Bully!

Excellent analogy. The wilful ignorance of the problems these breeds are causing - and the chances are that we are seeing the tip of the iceberg yet, with the increase in their numbers - is just mind boggling.

These dogs cannot be controlled by the average human if they decide they don't want to be, and they have the mental and physical make-up to do extensive damage ... and to kill. They have no place in domestic settings. (In fact, I can see no place for them at all.)

'No factual basis'

Except the opinion in this piece refers to research and evidence - so there is a factual basis for it.

But if you want something else - this from the RVC https://www.rvc.ac.uk/vetcompass/news/english-cocker-spaniels-a-fairly-typical-but-potentially-moody-dog

Still doesn't change my view that the real problem with XL Bullies/pitbulls isn't their temperament but the fact that their strength makes them difficult to fight off in the event that they attack you, which is just one reason why they're over represented when it comes to fatal dog attacks.

Luckily fatal dog attacks are very rare. 2022 was a blip with 10 deaths, but they usually average about 3 a year, in a population of nearly 70 million.

"Having an aggressive temperament isn’t enough in itself, it is the sheer ability to do damage"

My elderly mum was hospitalised by my sister's springer spaniel two years ago - savaged her hand. Dog bites can be really serious, even the non-fatal ones.

Luckily fatal dog attacks are very rare. 2022 was a blip with 10 deaths, but they usually average about 3 a year, in a population of nearly 70 million.

I think it's too early to say it's a blip. There have been 4 deaths so far this year. To work out whether it's a blip or a part of a pattern with a definite cause, we may need more time. It has coincided with the end of lockdown, so many puppies bought during lockdown will be maturing into adolescent dogs and will have seen changes in the way they're looked after as their owners work outside the home more. So we may be seeing the results of that.

As I said above, fatal attacks will be the tip of a triangle. So if non-fatal dog bites have also seen this substantial rise, then there is a probably a pattern emerging.

And in fact yes, injuries are on the rise. You can't see the full article without a subscription, but the stats are quoted at the start https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p879.full

I mean, it's nowhere near the size of the problem of RTCs and I'd like to see more done about that, but it's not either/ or and given how closely we live with dogs, it is I think something that's worth taking measured action on.

The American Kennel Club recommends all American bulldog types as ideal family pets. Is it the breed itself or is it the way it's being bred in the UK.

I really want a dog but until there is more control over dogs in public I'm not trying to convince DH we should have one

There are soooo many myths being peddled about the XL and other bully breeds. They're truly misunderstood. If everyone knew one, they'd realise how wrong they are.

For example there's a well known myth about them being nanny dogs, which has no basis in reality. In reality these dogs kill and main children not infrequently.

There's a myth that it's the owner, not the breed. When actually, in many cases of maulings/killings the dog was raised from puppyhood to adulthood within the very same family they turned on. Of course bad ownership and an unknown history increases the chances of an attack too.

There's a myth that they're gentle giants who wouldn't hurt a fly, maligned due to their appearance. In reality they're the current outcome of years and YEARS of breeding dogs for fighting. It's their innate nature to not show any signs before an attack because that would warn the victim. They will happily wag their tails during and after an attack, because they're doing what they and their ancestors are bred to do.

Not all of these dogs will snap, but when an XL bully snaps you may well lose your life. When a daschund snaps, the outcome is quite different.

A quick google of reports of attacks from XL bullies will show the absolute devastation these animals can wreak on humans and other animals alike.

You can adopt one and they might be safe their whole life. You might get lucky. But adopting one is like putting a loaded shotgun on your dining table. It might not go off, but if it does someone is off to the hospital or the morgue.

I don't hate these dogs individually, I feel sorry for them. They're not best suited to family home environments, that's not their nature, yet they're put in them and then tragedies happen. I'm in favour of neutering all existing bullies then allowing the breed to die out while the remaining dogs are in adult-only homes with people who understand the risk they're taking.

They will happily wag their tails during and after an attack, because they're doing what they and their ancestors are bred to do.

It's not necessarily happy wagging. Dogs wag their tails for many types of communication. Tail wagging can signify aggression and tension.

And this is partly why attacks happen. People are very bad at reading animals' body language. See also purring in cats and pricked ears in horses.

I don’t really need or want to be an expert in reading animals body language. I just don’t want to be in a situation where I or someone I love is killed in a horrific way by someone’s ‘pet.’

And I am sorry about your mum, but again, the insistence that springer spaniels are ‘just as bad’ is bonkers. A springer may bite. It will hurt. It may do damage. It will not kill. The only breeds recorded in the UK as having been responsible for fatalities are Alsatians, Rottweilers, Dobermans, Jack Russells, mastiffs, Cane Corsos, a chow chow, a husky and bull breeds. Overwhelmingly, the bull breeds are a huge percentage. Yet people take the Jack Russells and the Lakeland terrier that’s on there and use it as a point of triumph. I just find it really odd, and I’ve no idea what people want to prove.

Yet people take the Jack Russells and the Lakeland terrier that’s on there and use it as a point of triumph.

They also forget to mention that the victims were 8 days old and 3 weeks old respectively. Not quite the same as adults being killed ...