To not allow DD to go on school trip for breaking phones?

[Feefoog]

My DD 10 yo DD has broken her phone. I thought fine I have a spare one. DDs put a pin on the spare factory reset model. I have reset the phone but it says put in previous users emails. I've tried both mine and DDs emails, I think she's created an email to get round family link and screen time she said she might have done this. I'm really mad she's effectively broken 2 phones and broken my trust . She has a phone to walk to and from school so needs one, she has a school residential that's £310 which is already expensive. It's not so much about the money its that she shows no regard for rules, money or possessions.

AIBU to refuse to pay for this school trip as she needs a new phone well 2 phones really hers and the spare. She has already been snowboarding this year and will be having 2 weeks in Greece in August so its not like she won't be having trips away.

Just airtag something she always has with her you don't need a GPS enabled phone

Heck yes! You take that money and pay for phones! OR no phone for DD (oh the shame!).

I understand it makes some overprotective adults nervous, but anyone over 35 can attest to walking to school phone free. Horror stories occur with and without phones.

it’s a choice you can give her. She also has the option to finance the phone or the trip herself.

make it clear she is replacing the phones she broke. None of this ‘it’s mine, I bought it” BS

Look you really need to be ahead of the curve as far as tech goes with children

Yes and there was a pay phone in every corner so not comparable. However a basic Nokia is fine if can't be trusted with a smartphone.

So i assume that she is starting secondary school in 4 months time?

Why do you want to be able to read her private messages to her friends?

I wouldn't stop her going on the year six trip. Fund new phone herself by doing jobs, early birthday etc but not the trip

It feels like two separate issues. Were you unsure about the school trip anyway? If you were thinking it was too expensive, you don't need the excuse of her behaviour to say 'no' to the trip.
As for the phone, if you've reset it then you should be able to put in your email address and password. You shouldn't need DD's.
The lying, changing passwords, setting up other emails, ignoring limits, etc - should all have consequences. No screen time. Only access to a phone when she is out on her own. She's lying about no-one else having limits on their screen time or phone access. DCs always pretend their friends have more freedom. Only an idiot with no knowledge of safeguarding would let their 10-yr-old have unlimited access to phones and social media. It's unlikely all her friends' parents are idiots.

I think you should find a decent coding course and a (trustworthy) person to teach her properly about internet safety at the same time. Or both things in one course if possible.

She's obviously very bright at this and needs to use it for good.

Money talks - get her to contribute out of her weekly pocket money to a new phone so she learns the hard way.
Buy a cheap phone just for walking to school and no other phone.

My DC are told that they need a phone for school, that's primary.

That's completely normal IMO. And other pp upthread have said as much. I still check my teen dd's messages. Not often anymore, as she has gradually earned my trust. But when she was younger I checked every night and I still retain the right to do so, if she wants to keep access to the phone.

There's no payphones anymore, I always used to use 0800 revers h to ring my parents ha!. She wants to play out on her bike and I'm not willing to ban her from that in the long term. Unless MN are proposing I lock her up so she cant get fresh air and exercise which is better than sitting in her room , so she will be having a basic phone.

If you need to keep an eye on her location, buy an “AirTag” (or similar GPS device that can link to your phone) and put that on her belongings or bike. You don’t need a phone just to track her location.

I think getting her a basic phone is the way to go. And tackling the deception as well - I don't know if there's any short sharp way to do that, but I'd be concerned and pretty focussed on tackling that.

The school trip is for education, so you definitely don't want to deprive her of that.

Have you spoken to her about why she is so determined to get online without you checking her? Could she be in touch with inappropriate adults or involved in bullying or being bullied? She does seem to be set on it quite fiercely. I would be more worried about that than the cost of these devices she is bricking in clumsy attempts to avoid safeguards.

A phone without internet is a good idea. She can make calls, but not use social media, which is where I would guess the issue lies.

A smartphone is no substitute for supervision and they can give parents a false sense of security in letting children out alone. You might need to be more eyes-on when she's out and about, but that might be a good thing, considering what she might be getting in to.

When my brother lost a third phone by being careless as a teenager, my dad bought him an elderly persons phone. It had an orange screen and massive buttons. It did the job and was sufficiently embarassing to have out that he kept it in his bag and didn't lose it

Basic phone with no internet access, you hand it to her when she leaves the house and she gives it you back when she returns. AirTag on her bike/in her backpack?

she might want contact with her friends all the time, but because she’s broken your trust, this is the new rule. She doesn’t get to use your iPad either - physically lock it away.

you had rules, she broke them, she doesn’t get the fun things anymore.

It's completely normal to check social media and messages for a 10 year old, OP, in case anyone has you doubting yourself. I'm not just basing this on my own experience but this is an age group I've worked with for a couple of years now. They're still very young and they need guidance as to what's acceptable, and online bullying is rife at that age.

So as for the trip: she's breaking every rule you've set with regard to phones and screens, so that's where your punishment should lie. I'd go with the basic phone for ringing in an emergency and probably enforce a ban on screens until she understands the seriousness of trying to bypass your internet security measures.

Also if you just want to keep track of her physical whereabouts, get some Apple Airtags and put them in her school bag/ bike/ etc.

Her taking such measures to ignore security features is worrying, imo. She's young, I'd make a big deal of this. When you do give her a smartphone again, you need to check it every single day, be consistent. Good luck

A 10 year old most definitely does not need a phone.

I think the punishment needs to fit the crime. Break the phone/rules of having a phone, you go without a phone. A few weeks or so without a phone will make her think twice next time. Cancelling her school trip isn’t related to her phone in anyway. I know we think they need phones for safety, but in reality generations of children never had access to mobile phones. I’d put other things in place for safety, make sure she walks to school with an adult or with a group of friends. If she can’t go out with friends on a weekend because it’s not safe without a phone, then that is part of her punishment

She doesn’t need a smart or fancy phone.

You do need better passwords.

are you seriously thinking of punishing her by taking away her y6 residential? If so, for gods sake don’t do that. The punishment far far our weighs the crime and she will remember and resent you for that for a long time way past childhood. Trust me I speak from experience

I think making her walk around with a brick phone is a better punishment.

I would say the punishment needs to be connected to the offence. The school trip is not connected, so I would let her go on the trip, make her face consequences to do with screen time / phones. As others have said buy a cheap phone and ensure it can only be used to contact you in an emergency.
A smartphone is a privilege and she needs to show she can look after one before you get her another.

How many 10 years olds do you currently have in 2023? I have 2.