To not allow DD to go on school trip for breaking phones?

[Feefoog]

My DD 10 yo DD has broken her phone. I thought fine I have a spare one. DDs put a pin on the spare factory reset model. I have reset the phone but it says put in previous users emails. I've tried both mine and DDs emails, I think she's created an email to get round family link and screen time she said she might have done this. I'm really mad she's effectively broken 2 phones and broken my trust . She has a phone to walk to and from school so needs one, she has a school residential that's £310 which is already expensive. It's not so much about the money its that she shows no regard for rules, money or possessions.

AIBU to refuse to pay for this school trip as she needs a new phone well 2 phones really hers and the spare. She has already been snowboarding this year and will be having 2 weeks in Greece in August so its not like she won't be having trips away.

Don't stop her going. It's a massive social bonding moment with friends and also part of their steps to independence.
People held back for whatever reason are left out of chats about it for months after. It's a bit hole in shared development.
You need to find another way to address the phone issue.

I work with children and families and spend a lot of time talking to parents and kids about online safety, as others have said, the school residential is a red herring. It has nothing to do with the phone issue but there are real problems here that need looking into.

10 years old is too young to understand the responsibility and risk that comes with a smartphone. As others have said, the breaking of the phone (whilst annoying) really is the least of your worries here.

Firstly, at the age of 10 how has your DD managed to become so tech-savvy that she already knows how to bypass parental controls, set up multiple email accounts and set up a pin etc without any help? Either someone is advising her to do these things (if so who?) or she has spent an awful lot of time on devices to learn these things herself. How many hours a day is she spending on tech? Does she have other interests or hobbies?

Secondly, why the secrecy? Have you asked her why she is she so invested in getting around these controls? What is it that she is looking at or doing online that she doesn't want you to see? Who is she communicating with online? Is she already on social media? If she is knowledgeable enough to bypass parental controls she would presumably be able to set up a Tik Tok or Insta account and you wouldn't know.

I agree with others that no 10 year old needs a smartphone. If you really want her to have a phone to walk to and from school then it needs to be one that doesn't have Internet access.

I disagree with pp saying get her an "embarrassing" 'brick' phone as a "punishment"- this just perpetuates the notion that access to a smartphone at 10 years old is normal which it shouldn't be. Being embarrassed by outdated tech should not even be on a 10 year olds radar.

I think, generally, the punishment ought to be connected to the incident.

So no school trip due to the phones - not really connected.

No/ v. limited screen time and a very basci replacement phone - very connected and logical consequence.

I don't really understand how she's broken the second phone. Is it because you can't reset it? I suspect a phone repairer could fix that. But she shouldn't have it anyway, a 10 year old doesn't need a mobile. If you're worried about her getting to and from school, start taking her yourself.

Answering from my own perspective ... so that they can ring and tell you that they've gone to a friend's house on the way home so will be late, that their bike has a puncture and please can you come and rescue them, that the school has cancelled the after school club they were going to go to and they want to check someone will be at home if they come straight back (yes, I think the last one should have been on the school).

None of those is essential, but they just make life a little bit easier.

Also, from my perspective, I gave my DC a brick phone at primary school level so they could prove they could use it responsibly before graduating to a smart phone at secondary school level.

I've took your advice , I looked at the phone and shes deleted her texts she knows she's not allowed to do that. So shes in more trouble. No screens for a long time. She said her friend had no screen time limits or blocks they are older parents so might not know how to set it up. She has lots of hobbies she's out on her bike, drawing , football so she can do that instead of that.

I will try that basically I've factory reset the old phone to bypass the pin code. Shes made an email and she doesn't know it/forgotten it for security the phone wants me to put in the old address..

This exactly

Well done, @Feefoog. I'm sure a bit of football and drawing will be far better for her than staring at a screen anyway. Who knows, she might even enjoy it!

I'd let her go on residential as the things are not related. I'd get her very cheap brick phone to walk to and fro from school and take it back the moment she walked through the door. Eventually she will tell you emails and passwords in order to get more phone time.

@Feefoog, also, something to think about - when I first got DD a smartphone I told her that the condition of her having it was that I knew the access details and could look at it at any time. If I saw anything at all I wasn't happy about she would not have the phone any more. I checked it often when she was 12/13/14 but she proved that she wasn't doing anything concerning and I check much less often these days (she's 16). But the rule remains - if she wants a phone she has to allow me access if I want to see what she is up to. Maybe something you could put in place when she has proved she can be trusted in a couple of years' time? Or tell her that it's a condition of having the basic phone and set those habits up now (esp if she is deleting texts). The younger the child, the easier it is to make this a rule.

Banning her from the school trip is disproportionate. So is your level of anger tbh. Breaking a phone is something that happens sometimes, unfortunately, especially at 10.

Trying to get round a screen time limit is a bit naughty, but hardly the crime of the century. She clearly did not intend to break the phone, she isn't being deliberately dangerous or destructive. She just doesn't have an adult level of brain development yet. It was your responsibility to keep the phone secure.

I wouldn’t stop her going on the trip, I think it’s something at her age she won’t forget and it’s a massive thing.
It doesn’t seem like she’s actively known it would break it. But she’s broken your trust which it the big one for me and that doesn’t mean she gets away unpunished. Get her a very very cheap phone, she then has the embarrassment of this which is her own fault, and she does chores until she’s earnt enough to pay for the spare.
Let the punishment match the crime in my opinion.

Sounds like you are on top of it, Feefoog. Good luck!

@Feefoog my main worry would be what is she doing with her phone she is so desperate to bypass security

my 11yo got her first phone, she uses it to text friends (very rarely) , text me gifs and emoji (a good way to communicate when she doesn't want to talk emotions) and to play 2/3 games which i approved the download of and I am familiar with...

Also, she leaves her phone out of the room at bed time so I can check it whenever i want (my fingerprint and her dad's fingerprints are added to the phone and we know her PIN) not that I need to (but so far do check maybe once twice a week)

so yeah, I would be checking what she is doing with it

I think the bigger issue here is why she's so hellbent on getting by the security set out for her.

You wouldn't be unreasonable if you did choose to cancel the trip but I think let her go as the punishment doesn't really correlate with what she did wrong.

Take away all electronics instead and vet her the cheapest phone you can find that can only be used to phone.

This.

I would cancel the trip. Actions have consequences, if she’s old enough to to be devious with emails and passwords then she’s old enough to learn this lesson.

It's not hard to work your way into a parent's phone, if the parent isn't very tech savvy, it doesn't mean the daughter necessarily worked out a PIN or password, e.g. if it were left unlocked at any point, the child could add their own fingerprint as one of the ways to access and then go back to it anytime.

However, it is very sneaky behaviour and should be dealt with properly. I think the OP seemed more concerned about physically breaking a phone, which is far less serious than all the subsequent revelations about cheating and lying over safe internet use. Witholding a school trip is an odd response. Getting rid of a smart phone for a 10 year old is the first step, along with internet enabled devices only being used in the presence of a parent.

So, just luck?
Change your PIN. I'd be bloody furious if my kids unlocked my phone (they are 14 and 24).
You shouldn't have to be locking away your personal possessions so that your 10 year old doesn't use them. That indicates a bigger issue than just breaking phones.

The dilemma is she likes to play out with friends go on her bike. Her phone is GPS enabled and I like being able to contact her see where she is. I might have to look for a watch that has the capability to do this instead.

I wouldn't give a 10 year old a phone but if I did I would be making peace with the fact there is a good chance it might get damaged. I'd be very concerned about the fact that she is texting people and deleting it. You don't seem to have any clue who she was contacting on that phone and what those messages said but as long as you can check her via GPS then that's ok

I wouldnt myself stop her from going to her year 6 trip.

Just dont replace the phones!

I do know who's she contacting , it's children her friends the family link comes up with that but she's deleting what she texts her friends which is breaking my trust.