Huge argument with DH. AIBU?

[SquashAndSqueeeze]

DH and I have been married for over 10 years, together for around 15. We have two children.

Ons issue that we have had, over these years, is the way DH talks to me when he is upset. He goes into fight mode and will speak in a way that I find aggressive. And I absolutely won’t accept that, although maybe the fact we are still married says different.

DH is usually a really lovely guy. Life and soul of the party, charismatic, friendly, confident. However, if I ever take issue with anything he does or has done, he blows ups

DH also does loads of work around the house whilst also working full time. I work part time whilst studying. I also have a medical condition that is causing extreme fatigue and I am receiving treatment soon that should treat this issue, however I have been pretty useless these last months because I have 0 energy. The qualification I’m studying for is demanding and I’m trying to do this to better our future.

The reason DH and I have fallen out is once again, because of how he speaks to me. However, he has said that he is fed up of feeling like he isn’t valued in our family. He does work hard to provide for us, and he does lots of housework, more than me. What has annoyed him is that yesterday, he did a lot of work round the house and left a pile of things on our bed that he asked if I could sort. I was studying at the time, but said okay. However, my sister called who I have not spoken to in months and I answered the call. DH then got annoyed that I hadn’t cleared the bed. Okay, maybe I was in the wrong here, but he now says that the majority of the time he asks me to do something, I don’t do it. I can’t explain how hectic my life has been lately. The job I do, although part time, is really demanding. The qualification requires around 20 hours of study a week. The kids are still at an age where they need lots of support. I organise all of their clubs and activities and then write a schedule for DH and I for pick ups/drop offs. I buy their clothes and any other things they need. When they go to parties, I sort the presents, I organise their birthday parties. I organise our holidays, and book any weekend activities. I organise play dates etc. All of these things mount up and on top of everything else I have to do for work and Uni, I have very little time left. For example, I can’t remember the last time I watched TV.

DH is saying all of these things about me not pulling my weight, as if it excuses the way he speaks to me. A few weeks ago, he slept in the spare room. I can’t even remember what the disagreement was that caused this, but when our 8 year old daughter woke up, she was concerned by this and asked her dad why he was there. He told her “don’t worry about it, it’s not for you to worry about”. DD was clearly more worried after this reply. I took her to one side and said that mummy had been snoring and that’s why daddy went through there. I don’t feel it’s right to put adult issues onto the children.

I just don’t know what to do. I have suggested counselling and he says it’s not for him. I’ve suggested he tries mindfulness but he won’t. I know I’m not perfect but I do want to bring our children up in a happy home, and I don’t feel we are able to do that. Maybe it’s me that’s causing all this? I just can’t see the wood for the trees at the moment.

I agree, and have suggested similar, but apparently a calm conversation is not the MN way. Prepared to be flamed for daring to suggest it!

A lot of charismatic, life of the party people are actually nasty arseholes behind closed doors.

She’s said twice that he won’t have a cleaner.

Is this about allocation of domestic tasks? Or about his anger problem and how he speaks to you?

The first is resolvable - the second will never change, as he has no interest in counselling or reflection. And resolving the first won’t make the second go away.

Perhaps your expectations are simply lower. I wouldn’t put up with this bullshit and nor should the OP. But if you think a night out will resolve things that’s your prerogative.

I agree with this and I dont think this situation is tenable going forward. Its not realistic to have the kids doing multiple activities, working, studying, health conditions to take into account, the house being absolutely spotless at all times with no outside help etc. Thats a ridiculous amount of pressure to put on any family. Its not necessary to aim for this level of perfection and the cost of all this is your mental health and exhaustion (for both of you).

Kids dont need to be doing activities all the time, reduce some of these pressures as I think all this would lead any family to boiling point, health condition or not.

Its clearly too much for both of you, I dont know why you dont examine this and cut some of this stuff back.

They “sound like”? Do they??? OP said absolutely nothing of the sort, you have invented something that simply isn’t in the text,

I never understood how anyone could fail English GCSE before MN.

I’m also agog to hear how to fix a personality and 15 years of behaviour issues in one calm conversation.

Why are people suggesting things to minimise his rage. Surely the foundation of this needs fixing not the things that "upset" him

Before any talks or thoughts of divorce, have an honest, grown up conversation.
Marriage is hard, divorce is hard - choose your poison!

Relationships can be saved by a couple actually properly communicating - agree to be kind and talk with respect, and realise that each of you may have to face up to uncomfortable truths. Stop point scoring (both of you)

Easier said than done- few things worth working for are.

Yeah, it sometimes seems as if posters are relieving their own tensions and grievances by pushing the nuclear button on other peoples behalf.

They certainly don’t seem to follow the advice not to let the sun go down on your anger.

Yes. The issue of his angry response to her feedback needs fixing as a key part.
If he is not willing then it's a different discussion.

Chances are he won't be willing. Ime.

I hope I'm wrong.

Some of your responses, OP, suggest that your understandable desire to put your children at the centre of your decision making, is limiting what you are open to considering.
Whilst reducing their clubs/activities might not be the best thing for them, what would be the benefits for you and/or your DH? Would this also bring about some benefits for them?
Whilst separating from your DH, whilst that would cause them distress, what would be the benefits for you? In turn, what would be the benefits for them?

I think it would be helpful to you if you thought about the above in some detail. You may still come to the same conclusion, but this might pave the way to identifying a tipping point. You can consider what is your tolerance point whereby you would decide to reduce activities/ commitments or leave your husband? At what point would you think that it is in your children's' best interest, even if you felt able to tolerate the upset for yourself.

Why are you doing all this to yourself?
You say you're exhausted but you're studying for another qualification?
Is this reasonable?
And FWIW I would also be less than impressed if you didn't tidy up a few things.

My expectations are not lower by any means but I wouldn't blow up my marriage on the say so of an internet forum.

'Pointing and raising his voice' in the context of an argument, has been turned into 'jabbing a finger in her face'.

OP do you want to find a way forward?

Things sound awful in your house. The children already know.

It seems that @QueenieMe and @thoughtsofmoog3 have a reasonable perspective here.
Instead of the two of you battling and knitpicking each other if you both agreed to stop, think twice , speak with love and respect for the other and above all show appreciation for what each of you do. It is said in couples' counseling that for every one criticism we have for our spouse their should be three times the positive support in what we say.

It sounds like you are both doing alot in this household to make it work. That is great! Now you need to work on being kinder to each other. Take a bit more time off for the two of you. Go for walks or sit in the garden. Marriage shouldn't be only hard work and focusing too much on the knitting gritty isn't the solution.

Sorry a bit random but how did people in his family speak to each other when he was growing up? I realised when I was stress I had an stressed and aggressive done to my voice that upon reflection mimics my mum's tone from when I was growing up. I would in my mind be doing nothing wrong and infact my immediate family have never said anything...I noticed my kids were speaking in this way to each other and than I traced it back to me.

@SquashAndSqueeeze would your DH go for anger management or counselling if you told him you’re considering ending the marriage due to the way he speaks to you? You need to explain that it’s completely unacceptable for your children to hear him verbally abusing and shouting at their mother (no matter what you have or haven’t done in the house). If he isn’t willing to change his behaviour, you have to decide if you can continue to live with it.

Does he speak to his friends, other family members or work colleagues in a similar way? If not, he is choosing to treat you as his emotional punchbag.

Wow, rude much? There are lots of people on MN who, no, probably haven't passed exams but that doesn't mean they are not emotionally intelligent. OP stated that when she calls him out on how he talks to her, they are rowing. Are you suggesting that they leave the house, drive somewhere remote like the seaside or the mountains, then have the conversation there?! Of course they're happening at the same time! And yes, calm conversations can turn relationships around. Might need more than one and it might not work for OP's relationship, but it's certainly worth a try rather than blowing up a marriage which is clearly the MN way.

I can see why your husband could find it bit irritating,
you say you will do something in a few mins, but don't do that,

however he comes across as overwhelmed with stress , burnt out..

I also think he sounds like a annoying frustrating stubborn know it all character who likes to play Martyr type role,
"Look at everything I do , I am just not appreaciated enough, "

the suggestion of having a proffessional cleaner to come on a regular basis sounds like a real good idea, obviously if you can afford this,@SquashAndSqueeeze

or
even look on youtube influencer websites on people who are good, experts on keeping a house effectively clutter free, and efficiently clean and tidy..
Miss Hitchens website and others spring to mind,

Your daughter I think is now old enough for you to teach how to be tidier putting her clothes away ect.

I am just wondering where is his, and or your families involved in supporting you as a family unit then?
to make life a bit easier somewhat then,

Sorry a bit random but how did people in his family speak to each other when he was growing up?

not random at all… his family are all argumentative. Their “conversations” are pretty much arguments. His dad always knows best and rejoices in the moment he finds a perceived tiny flaw in what another person is saying. Despite the fact he is often wrong and there is no flaw! If the other person involved isn’t family, they may not correct him. So he ends up looking like a fool and thinking he’s somehow wise, all at the same time. When his family do correct him, it just descends into more arguing. It’s almost like arguing is their way of talking. It’s intolerable!

DH is in no way as bad as his dad. But as the youngest in his family, has always had to be tough and fight to be heard.

You don't seem to accept responsibility for any of this, and that's why you can't agree. I would be furious with you in your oh shoes, you seem to be looking for justification to leave, so leave.

I am just wondering where is his, and or your families involved in supporting you as a family unit then?
to make life a bit easier somewhat then,

We live hundreds of miles from the country we grew up in so have no family support. Moving back is not an option available to us for the foreseeable future.

I have suggested counselling and he says it’s not for him.

What's not for him? Trying to find a better marriage isn't for him? Having a better relationship isn't for him? Trying to sort out a problem that may corrode the foundations of his marriage isn't for him?

The number of people who would rather piss their marriage away than sit in a room and talk for an hour once a week always astounds me.

This puts a new slant on it. His responses are conditioned by familial behaviour. That doesn't make them right, but it shows it's ingrained.

As a PP asked, OP, have you told him you are thinking of ending the marriage because of how he talks to you?