Huge argument with DH. AIBU?

[SquashAndSqueeeze]

DH and I have been married for over 10 years, together for around 15. We have two children.

Ons issue that we have had, over these years, is the way DH talks to me when he is upset. He goes into fight mode and will speak in a way that I find aggressive. And I absolutely won’t accept that, although maybe the fact we are still married says different.

DH is usually a really lovely guy. Life and soul of the party, charismatic, friendly, confident. However, if I ever take issue with anything he does or has done, he blows ups

DH also does loads of work around the house whilst also working full time. I work part time whilst studying. I also have a medical condition that is causing extreme fatigue and I am receiving treatment soon that should treat this issue, however I have been pretty useless these last months because I have 0 energy. The qualification I’m studying for is demanding and I’m trying to do this to better our future.

The reason DH and I have fallen out is once again, because of how he speaks to me. However, he has said that he is fed up of feeling like he isn’t valued in our family. He does work hard to provide for us, and he does lots of housework, more than me. What has annoyed him is that yesterday, he did a lot of work round the house and left a pile of things on our bed that he asked if I could sort. I was studying at the time, but said okay. However, my sister called who I have not spoken to in months and I answered the call. DH then got annoyed that I hadn’t cleared the bed. Okay, maybe I was in the wrong here, but he now says that the majority of the time he asks me to do something, I don’t do it. I can’t explain how hectic my life has been lately. The job I do, although part time, is really demanding. The qualification requires around 20 hours of study a week. The kids are still at an age where they need lots of support. I organise all of their clubs and activities and then write a schedule for DH and I for pick ups/drop offs. I buy their clothes and any other things they need. When they go to parties, I sort the presents, I organise their birthday parties. I organise our holidays, and book any weekend activities. I organise play dates etc. All of these things mount up and on top of everything else I have to do for work and Uni, I have very little time left. For example, I can’t remember the last time I watched TV.

DH is saying all of these things about me not pulling my weight, as if it excuses the way he speaks to me. A few weeks ago, he slept in the spare room. I can’t even remember what the disagreement was that caused this, but when our 8 year old daughter woke up, she was concerned by this and asked her dad why he was there. He told her “don’t worry about it, it’s not for you to worry about”. DD was clearly more worried after this reply. I took her to one side and said that mummy had been snoring and that’s why daddy went through there. I don’t feel it’s right to put adult issues onto the children.

I just don’t know what to do. I have suggested counselling and he says it’s not for him. I’ve suggested he tries mindfulness but he won’t. I know I’m not perfect but I do want to bring our children up in a happy home, and I don’t feel we are able to do that. Maybe it’s me that’s causing all this? I just can’t see the wood for the trees at the moment.

I had a partner jab his finger in my face while aggressively berating me, it is abusive, demeaning and threatening. Your husband needs to work on himself, but if he's never wrong, thats not going to happen. I think all this usually stems from childhood issues, over critical parenting, which he is now enacting on your children. Id be throwing down some ultimatums, he needs to get help or the marriage is not going to last.

So split.
Whats stopping you? Children adapt, plenty of women have done it.

Its pointless expecting him to change. He’s always been like this. I suspect half of it is your reaction. On some level he wins by annoying you. It doesn’t sound like you are making him happy either.
Honest question, do you think he might be happier out of the relationship?

Because yet again a MN thread has gone straight for the nuclear button 'LTB, call Women's Aid' option and marriages aren't as simple as that. Nowhere has OP said she wants to end the relationship and given how snappy and defensive she's being in her posts, I wonder if time outside the house doing something not work/kids/chores related might help the both of them to relax enough to have a calm, considered conversation about their issues. If her OH still reacts like an arse, she has her answer. But there's definitely two sides to this one.

Your DH is only lovely as long as things are going the way he wants them.

The sensible solution to the problem would be to have a cleaner, which he has refused. You could both learn to communicate more effectively by going for counselling but he won't.
These are indications he is controlling. They are red flags. Please consider going for counselling just for yourself, and look at The Freedom Program website.
https://www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/graphic.php

See I don’t think the OP is being snappy or defensive at all 🤷🏼‍♀️ I just don’t see it. She seems bewildered to me, if anything.

I do think housework can be a MN ‘trigger point’: there are a few. I remember posting annoyed because my husband followed me into the toilet to tell me I left my work lanyard out and the consensus was I was an unreasonable slob!

He could be a decent guy but decent men don’t jab their fingers in their wives’ faces.

Because yet again a MN thread has gone straight for the nuclear button 'LTB, call Women's Aid' option and marriages aren't as simple as that. Nowhere has OP said she wants to end the relationship and given how snappy and defensive she's being in her posts, I wonder if time outside the house doing something not work/kids/chores related might help the both of them to relax enough to have a calm, considered conversation about their issues. If her OH still reacts like an arse, she has her answer. But there's definitely two sides to this one.

^ this. I remember when I said something in a post once and everyone started screaming LTB at me. My DH is an absolute star and I was horrified at the responses because we had a minor blip that I dared to express online - and god forbid he had depression, which was causing the issue!

He’s always been angry, aggressive and belittling according to the OP: how do you propose date night to fix that?

It’s true that MN often overreact, I’m not denying that for an instant. But I really do struggle to justify jabbing a finger in a face. That’s not acceptable at all IMO.

It may not have to mean end of the line, but it does have to change - surely we all agree on that!?

He sounds very unsupportive and very unpleasant to live with. He's not doing anything to help improve your home life - not agreeing to a cleaner, or your relationship, by not agreeing to counselling. He sounds like he's not focusing on your children's sense of security or happiness, and that he's getting increasingly selfish.

In an ideal world people step up when their partners are unwell - he's not doing this, he's trying to manage you to maximise your productivity.

He shouldn't be aggressive. If that's a deal breaker for you then you need to take steps to leave. You say you've been unhappy about it for ages but you're not doing anything to change that pattern except asking him to change. That hasn't worked for the last ten years. It isn't going to work now. You can go to relationship counselling on your own.

On the tidying the bed / phone call issue. I'd be annoyed if I asked DH to do something. He said he would do it. Then spent ages on the phone to a sibling or friend instead. You can sort stuff whilst on the phone. It would also annoy me if he then complained he was always too busy/tired to do anything - when he'd just spent ages on a phone call (proving he obviously wasn't too busy/tired to take the call and that the fatigue was only relevant as an excuse to do something I'd asked him to do).

@Vikingthings if I have a pile of stuff for someone to put away, I put it in a box. And add to it. And then move it to the spare bedroom. And then tidy it away in the garage. So, if it's not emptied, it's not my problem

MN overreacts in some cases, but it also under-reacts in others. There are staggeringly low expectations of men in some quarters and a tolerance and expectation of male aggression.

In my house, this guy wouldn’t have made 6 months of dating, if he’d never even made a month.

I might be going against the grain here but I dont think he has any reason to have a go at you.

You did clear the stuff from the bed, just not immediately. Some jobs have to be done straight away (eg clear the table so you can eat off it, wash something before using it) but clearing something from a bed only needs to be done before you sleep surely. Me and my husband often ask each other to put the kids clothes away etc and dump them somewhere...we leave the other person to schedule it in when its convenient for them.

Why does he get to make all the decisions? He decides you wont get a cleaner. He decides which jobs need doing and when, he decides that the jobs he allocates you aren't good enough, he decides that the way he speaks to you is acceptable even though you've said it upsets you. It sounds like there is a big power imbalance here.

What does he actually want from you? You work part time, it sounds like you do all the mental load, and your share of childcare and study the rest of the time. It would be different if you were sitting on the sofa watching TV while he was running around cleaning but you're not, it sounds like you dont get much of a break either. He won't listen or action any of your suggestions like cleaners or counselling either.

So I'd ask him to sit down and list specifically what he actually wants you to do, and why, and what he thinks you can drop

I dont know if this will help though as it sounds he has an 'I'm the boss' attitude that I can't see improving. If he won't go to counselling then maybe get some yourself to see how you feel about leaving. If you are already going down the path of leaving you could say you will leave if he speaks to you like that again or if he doesn't try counselling with you...but I think youd need to be prepared to follow through

It's why I'd never share any of the rows or disagreements I have with my DP on here! I do wonder how many women have blown up their marriages after posting on MN and whether they ever come to regret it. Obviously in some cases the woman absolutely should get the hell out without a backward glance – DV, financial abuse, aggression towards DC etc – but sometimes the situation is more opaque and I think this is one of them. It's clear OP and her OH are both exhausted and struggling and while he definitely needs to be kinder in how he talks to her is divorce really the best and only option as others are suggesting?

I totally agree, the way he is treating you is not appropriate and bordering on abusive.

Why don't you swap roles for a bit? If you are working PT and studying PT, that roughly equals 1 FT role. He also works FT. Swap everything else. Have a sit down chat and outline everything you do, and make these his responsibility. He can outline everything he does and make these your responsibility. At least then you can both get a feel for how much each other does - it might create a bit of empathy for the other person.

Because right now neither of them can see the wood for the trees and having a conversation out of the home environment, a night off from chores/kids/work/studying, could facilitate a calmer conversation where they can talk about what's been going on and see if there's a way through it.

Seriously, am I the only person who goes out with their DH to talk about things?! It's good to check in and have a relationship MOT once in a while. I find it baffling that the idea is being rubbished.😳

I find it baffling that you’re apparently unable to read the OP’s posts which detail that his anger and aggression has been going on for 15 years. That she has repeatedly talked to him about counselling and a cleaner and he shut both down?

How do you think a “calm conversation” will fix that??

This!

Does your DH know the impact the way he talks to you has on you, OP? I guess what I’m wondering is if there’s a way you could both sit down and talk through this together — not in the heat of the moment, or in a tit for tat way, but calmly, gently. It might not affect how he behaves but if he understands how it makes you feel, he might be more inclined to change. And perhaps he can explain to you a bit more about how he feels (I think you mentioned somewhere that he feels he does a lot and isn’t always appreciated). If you can talk about it from both your points of view, and both really listen to and try to understand the other, you might be able to move forward?

My dh is very similar op, great as long as everything is going his way, and hostile and shouty when they aren't. He won't change because this is who he is and he doesn't think he is doing anything wrong. You can have a heart to heart talk with him or give him an ultimatum, but the reality ime is that you put up with it or leave.

Not read PPs but just wanted to say - you can buy children's clothes online and have them delivered - are you doing that to save time and energy?

DH is usually a really lovely guy. Life and soul of the party, charismatic, friendly, confident.
*
"*However if I ever take issue with anything he does or has done he blows up"

He's not burnt out. He's an arsehole who can't take criticism.

The bed clearing is a red herring.

You both have to cut some things out. You both work, and clean, and cook.

maybe you have too much going on. Something will give, either your marriage, or then both of you.

I don’t understand why posters are putting more value on doing chores around the house than the fact the OP’s dh has anger problems and brings unnecessary and nasty aggressiveness into the family home. Is not folding some clothes really a bigger issue than a dad making his daughter upset because he got angry she kissed a pebble? It seems to some on here that getting a cleaner will transform your husband in to a nice husband and good dad.🤨

These sound like fraught conversations had in the midst of rows. I'm just suggesting a different way. But hey, what do I know. LTB, take him for all he's got, get your ducks in a row, etc etc.