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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Vegan inviting themselves to join a dinner resulting in everyone having a crap dinner

258 replies

NewShoesForSpring · 13/05/2023 20:31

I was away with work meeting several international colleagues.

3 of us were staying in the same direction & decided we'd head back together & get some dinner on the way. The quiet girl, let's call her Mary, heard us & said she was staying in the same general direction & would leave with us. We had no problem with this & so once we were finished up that drink we left the general group & checked if she was ready etc

We get off the metro at a busy area close to where our hotels are & there are loads of lovely bistros etc, all busy so one of the group suggestes we try one that looks v nice & has loads of people dining etc. We go over to take a look at the menu (though if it had been just me & the person who suggested it I'd say we'd have just gone straight in! It was getting late & we'd been slightly concerned we wouldn't even find dinner at that stage. So this place looked perfect.

Anyway Maria is hesitating by the menu & then she pipes up that she's vegan....

She tries asking the waiter if they have anything but he doesn't understand & do we're all standing about dithering & she had NO suggestions of what she'd like to do..we start walking around the square looking at all the menus....its now 10.15pm...I can feel our chances of finding some nice food fading...

She spends AGES reading every menu to reject them all. Eventually she stops in front of a cheap Lebanese place & says 'oh falafel I love them...' so we found ourselves eating a really crap dinner. Essentially it was like a takeaway place with plastic cutlery.

The colleague who suggested the Bistro is perhaps late 60s & has a condition that gives her a tremor & she wanted to sit inside as it was getting chilly outside

Maria the vegan said oh shall we sit outside? It's nicer..more dithering for the group of 4 if us as we don't know each other & everyone was trying to be polite

I was getting to the end of my patience then so went to the bathroom & said I'd find them

Came out...they were outside...poor other colleague was wrapping a scarf around herself. We were surrounded by people smoking those glass pipe things (I forget the name)

The food was v basic. I ordered a vegetarian plate (it looked like that might be the best option ). It consisted of cubed potatoes, rice, a small spoon of veg moussaka & bread - cards on carbs!

I ate it without fuss & also worked hard to keep the small talk inclusive etc . I asked Maria how she normally copes with the vegan diet when travelling & she said she usually gets supermarket food. So from that point of view I was glad she did stay out.

But bloody hell there was a really selfish part of me thar was looking longingly across the square at the lovely bistro & wishing for a lovely glass of red wine & steak et frites...it had been tantalisingly close. I also wanted to chat to the older colleague about a part of work / project we're both involved in but it would have left Maria out of the loop.

And to top it all...I we spent so long faffing about finding vegan food by the time I got back to my hotel the bar had closed so I never even got thar glass of wine!

I REALLY wanted to say to Maria & the 4th colleague who didn't seem at all bothered by any of it - you go for the vegan stuff. Me & other colleague want go in here & eat meat / fish. But somehow that just didn't seem possible.

I woke up today feeling like a horrible person even though i did not let Maria know I was irritated....

OP posts:
Original poster
NewShoesForSpring · 13/05/2023 23:14

I didn't leave anyone behind! As I said that was never actually an option

I was anonymously bemoaning what happened

OP posts:
Jungleblur · 13/05/2023 23:16

DappledThings · 13/05/2023 22:45

There seems to be a fair few posters who don’t realise that ‘dithering’ means ‘cold’. I wonder if it’s a regional thing?
Where are you that dithering means cold? I've never heard that. It means faffing as OP has used it in every usage I've ever heard.

I'd have been the same OP. Would have been looking forward to a nice dinner when I'd found it, annoyed with Maria but wanting to not exclude her so gone along with it but been disappointed with the whole situation.

But I went to Paris with a vegan 15 years ago. That was tough. Ended up in a macrobiotic restaurant from a vegan guidebook we picked up in the Pompidou Centre. And vegan was the birthday girl we were there for so she definitely got to call the shots that time.

I’m in the North (England). I had no idea it was just a local thing, that’s interesting!

Citrusnotes77 · 13/05/2023 23:16

NewShoesForSpring · 13/05/2023 22:22

Thanks @PinkStarAtNight that's pretty much how I felt about it
Plus it was all happening at that moment. We did not know in advance that we were looking for vegan options. We were trying to find a place to eat in a city we don't know. It was late with a real possibility of service finishing as we were trying to find somewhere suitable
Older colleague & i did try the 'oh this looks perfect, let's go in here- look they're still serving' and were at the door & that's when M said she's vegan. She dithered at the menu for a few mins & we suggested she ask the waiter. They had a brief conversation & she came back to us shaking her head that it was a no go...

So in that split second we had to decide to say oh that's a pity but we're going in here - see you later..or looking around a square with lots of places, say why don't we see of one of these have something you can eat...

Yes I think most reasonable people would have mentioned the fact that they needed to find a vegan option at the point when you had invited her to join the group, especially as it was getting so late.

And at that point you could have said, well will you be ok with a salad and chips if there’s nothing better, because it’s so late now we may be forced to go for the majority choice here?

Original poster
NewShoesForSpring · 13/05/2023 23:19

@Citrusnotes77 that's actually exactly what should have happened. And I will keep that in mind for the next time. If there's a next time like that.

OP posts:
Pebblerock · 13/05/2023 23:19

You’re only human so YANBU for feeling annoyed, but you’ve said you don’t know this lady well, and it’s possible you don’t know the full story.

She could have a form of eating disorder and it’s just easier to tell people she’s vegan. If she usually just has supermarket food, and is quiet, she may feel isolated and have been going out of her comfort zone tagging along with you. This wouldn’t necessarily have been obvious - people with eating issues can become very good at hiding what’s really going on for them. Obviously I have no idea, but I think it’s always important to bear in mind that some people are fighting battles you know nothing about.

It does sound annoying, but I wouldn’t dwell on it.

DemiColon · 13/05/2023 23:21

These situations are always awkward. It turns out best if everyone tries to be somewhat accommodating, which you all did.

Maria was the problem, not because she was a jerk, I don't think, but because she was socially clueless and did not understand that she was also supposed to compromise/be flexible, and that everyone else was being affected by her preferences.

NeedCoffeeNowPlease · 13/05/2023 23:25

It's just how it worked out for one night. Tomorrow you can tell anyone who wants to join you, "Sure, you can join us. We're going to the bistro." Then they know where you're headed and it's less negotiable.

Citrusnotes77 · 13/05/2023 23:26

DemiColon · 13/05/2023 23:21

These situations are always awkward. It turns out best if everyone tries to be somewhat accommodating, which you all did.

Maria was the problem, not because she was a jerk, I don't think, but because she was socially clueless and did not understand that she was also supposed to compromise/be flexible, and that everyone else was being affected by her preferences.

Yea, exactly this!

Oblomov23 · 13/05/2023 23:31

There's no talking to op. This is classic mn. The whole:majority of the responses are saying YABU. you're passive / a wet blanket , not standing up for yourself. But no, apparently that's not the case. I give up.

Original poster
NewShoesForSpring · 13/05/2023 23:31

There is no tomorrow in this situation as I'm on my way home now

OP posts:
Citrusnotes77 · 13/05/2023 23:40

Oblomov23 · 13/05/2023 23:31

There's no talking to op. This is classic mn. The whole:majority of the responses are saying YABU. you're passive / a wet blanket , not standing up for yourself. But no, apparently that's not the case. I give up.

Or … op was behaving in a very kind way …. by including Mary/Maria… in the first place … and Mary/Maria did not, or was not able to … reciprocate those good manners for some reason. That’s where it fell apart. It was the lack of reciprocity.

huggiewuggie · 13/05/2023 23:47

Honestly, I'd have been pretending I was travelling in a different direction and negotiating the metro on my own then tucking myself up with some wine and room service in bed rather than get into random dinner arrangements with strangers.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes (in your case lebanese takeaway).

Original poster
NewShoesForSpring · 13/05/2023 23:58

That's an interesting hard line judgement @Oblomov23 !
I've added details as it seemed people were making assumptions about the dynamic of the group etc

I'm fascinated by all the responses & I'm grateful for them all.

@huggiewuggie I would definitely have considered this but there was only a bar in my hotel - they served breakfast but not dinner. Otherwise that's exactly what I would have done (& did it one night in a different meet up in a different city)

OP posts:
Kanaloa · 14/05/2023 00:03

Maybe instead of all standing about dithering like a bunch of wet lettuces you could have used the power of language to communicate. So instead of dithering outside the restaurant you could have said ‘oh no we must sit inside because x has to be indoors where it is warm.’ Instead of dithering around menus you could have decided where you were going and said ‘oh yes we’re going to x bistro. Oh you can’t eat there? What a shame, please do join us another time.’

Just grow up and speak like a regular adult.

Kanaloa · 14/05/2023 00:07

SquaresandStarlings · 13/05/2023 23:04

This is my DD16!!

The two of us spent a weekend staying at my sister's a couple of weeks ago in a lovely part of London...loads of lovely restaurants everywhere!

Day 1 we ended up getting a sun-par takeaway at home, and on day 2 we had to spend ages at Westfield choosing different meals from their food hall.

Can't vegans be flexible sometimes?

If by flexible you mean ‘just not be vegan,’ then no, not really. The point of veganism is generally that you stick to a vegan diet. If you are ‘vegan except for when I go out for burgers and steak’ then you aren’t vegan at all, you’re just a person who doesn’t eat very much meat.

huggiewuggie · 14/05/2023 00:07

NewShoesForSpring · 13/05/2023 23:58

That's an interesting hard line judgement @Oblomov23 !
I've added details as it seemed people were making assumptions about the dynamic of the group etc

I'm fascinated by all the responses & I'm grateful for them all.

@huggiewuggie I would definitely have considered this but there was only a bar in my hotel - they served breakfast but not dinner. Otherwise that's exactly what I would have done (& did it one night in a different meet up in a different city)

You should have ditched them at the conference and choose a lovely bistro on your own, then.

My point is, don't make dinner plans with people you don't know, least of all when you are hungry and have had a long day at work.

All of this fuckery could have been avoided if you were as anti social as me, lol.

bellac11 · 14/05/2023 00:09

I think a lot of people on this site (more than in real life) have zero comprehension tha the wheels of social interaction are smoothed by the grease of dithering and being passive. The reality is sometimes people are in situations which means that to speak out or to make independent plans/talk about doing that, would be weird, awkward, lack self awareness.

So social situations like this happen all the time, thats life.

Its not about 'using your words' (wanky phrase) or marching off to the bistro on your own. People on here talk such a load of bullshit.

NumberTheory · 14/05/2023 00:24

Especially because you were away for work being inclusive, even though it was a pain in the arse, was absolutely the right thing to do. I think it reflects well on you as a professional and on your work place that at an international work meeting you didn’t just ditch the cultural outlier when it suited.

As Citrusnotes77 pointed out, Maria could have handled things a lot better, and maybe she’ll learn. It sounds like she normally hides in her room eating supermarket food, so this might have been a big deal for her and maybe it will take a little practice - something she’ll feel better able to do since she didn’t just get ditched as soon as she tried to get what she needed.

Hope you get your glass of wine later, OP.

JudgeRudy · 14/05/2023 00:55

pecantoucan · 13/05/2023 20:40

If all the "dithering" bothers you stand up and take charge next time

Agree. I don't think you were annoyed at Maria as much as yourself. She's done nothing wrong. She's not a mind reader.

DeeCeeCherry · 14/05/2023 01:03

Wimpish behaviour by you all. No wonder she took the lead. You didn't speak up so you may as well get over it now. I'd have sat down at 2nd place and ordered my meal. That's it.

DemiColon · 14/05/2023 01:28

Kanaloa · 14/05/2023 00:07

If by flexible you mean ‘just not be vegan,’ then no, not really. The point of veganism is generally that you stick to a vegan diet. If you are ‘vegan except for when I go out for burgers and steak’ then you aren’t vegan at all, you’re just a person who doesn’t eat very much meat.

Show quote history

I realize that it's not inclusive, which apparently is now the most important principle in social life, but there was a time when people with extreme diets, for example for religious reasons, understood that adopting them meant they would often have to quietly excuse themselves from social events, so as not to impose them on others who did not share their practice or belief.

In fact from an anthropological POV, that's probably part of the reason many such practices developed, to keep the group separate.

There has been a real flip in who society sees as responsible for accommodating themselves to others demands. In the case of usual or severe diets, it used to be those who followed the diet, now it seems to be others who do. And most people are happily willing to accommodate special diets to some extent, but there is a point where it becomes an imposition which seems to be lost on some.

Maddy70 · 14/05/2023 01:29

I have a vegan friend. It's bit their fault that restaurants fail to cater but it is really frustrating. We have this issue every week she has no idea that she is restricting us tbf but still

Original poster
NewShoesForSpring · 14/05/2023 01:32

I'm still here. Just arrived home after a v long journey & have been keeping up with all the replies.

I have to day I'm absolutely amazed that so many of you think I, and the other 2, were lily livered & in the wrong to try to find something M could eat. And also that so many of you would have just declared that you were eating in the bistro & that was that even though one of the party couldn't eat there.

Honestly I just could not do that. I cannot imagine turning to her & saying essentialiy I don't care that you can't eat here nor that you have no idea where you might find food suitable at all and it's 10.30pm - sort yourself out, I'm staying here.

I think the purpose of my post was originally air a disappointment that I came so close to having a nice meal & then the circumstances changed.

Many people think I was in the wrong - some think I was weak & ineffectual & others think I was wrong to feel (privately) disappointed & still others think I'm wrong to make a post about it because its a first world problem & no big deal & a total non-event

So it's interesting

OP posts:
CrapBucket · 14/05/2023 01:39

I’d have done and felt exactly the same - work social situations are very different to family/friends and you did the kind thing welcoming Maria to the ‘group’.

There should be a special word for the feeling of hoping a work related event will go a certain way and having to suck it up when it doesn’t.

NeedCoffeeNowPlease · 14/05/2023 01:53

NewShoesForSpring · 14/05/2023 01:32

I'm still here. Just arrived home after a v long journey & have been keeping up with all the replies.

I have to day I'm absolutely amazed that so many of you think I, and the other 2, were lily livered & in the wrong to try to find something M could eat. And also that so many of you would have just declared that you were eating in the bistro & that was that even though one of the party couldn't eat there.

Honestly I just could not do that. I cannot imagine turning to her & saying essentialiy I don't care that you can't eat here nor that you have no idea where you might find food suitable at all and it's 10.30pm - sort yourself out, I'm staying here.

I think the purpose of my post was originally air a disappointment that I came so close to having a nice meal & then the circumstances changed.

Many people think I was in the wrong - some think I was weak & ineffectual & others think I was wrong to feel (privately) disappointed & still others think I'm wrong to make a post about it because its a first world problem & no big deal & a total non-event

So it's interesting

I don't think you're wrong. I'd have done the same. I do think your friend should have said she needs to stay inside rather than sit outside if her medical condition needed that. I also don't think it would be wrong to, the next night, say you are going to the Bistro. If that's something you were keen on experiencing, that matters too. Some nights different groups can go different places.