Page 5 | ID of Starbucks non binary Southampton manager revealed

Birthdaygirltoday33 · 2023-05-13T11:42:23+00:00

Their name is Luna Spain DM link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12077475/Starbucks-manager-sacked-transphobia-rant-activist-terrifies-neighbours.html?ico=related-replace

KittyAlfred · 13/05/2023 14:32

AnonyMenOhPee · 13/05/2023 13:13

I really do think you have to take the reporting with a pinch of salt on this. The woman says she just wanted to pay by cash but in the video is asking for a refund - clearly there’s more to it than the video shows. Anyway whatever happened Luna has been sacked - what is there to be gained by sharing her identity? Hoping for a pile on? People to take the piss out of her appearance? What’s your motivation OP?

She asked for a refund when she was being asked to leave. Basically saying if you’re chucking me out without my drinks, then you should give me a refund. Why should she pay for drinks they wouldn’t give her ?

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat · 13/05/2023 14:33

Pluvia · 13/05/2023 14:25

Very odd for someone who is GC to not understand how important this is.

We're always being told by politicians and those with influence that both sides are as bad as each other — but we're not. GC people don't go round threatening people, trying to intimidate women who attend rallies, trying to prevent women from getting into buildings in order to hear other women speak and so on. It's good to have more evidence of the reality.

For years GC people have been pointing out that trying to insist that everyone addresses transpeople precisely as they wish to be addressed, even if that requires us to lie, is bonkers. You can't control the rest of the world's response to you and complain of being victimised and threatened with genocide if someone like this woman innocently uses a 'wrong' you don't like — which was actually the right word, because the other colleague was female and therefore traditionally referred to as a lady.

It also very clearly exposes the emotional fragility and lack of regulation that so many of us have encountered in our dealings with trans people. Many of us will have been screamed at in that way but don't have any evidence to show for it. So it's really important people see it.

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I agree, but the video did that - what is the necessity for this article?

frankgu · 13/05/2023 14:33

Naming someone, going to their parents, friends, neighbours...and then running that in the media in a worldwide publication. Is that acceptable?

I don't think it's acceptable but I suppose there has been a strong trend to dox/out those accused of transphobia so now the roles are reversing.

Effieswig · 13/05/2023 14:33

How is this and different to Amy other person being identified in a news article?

Plenty of people accused of crimes get their name in the paper? Why is it different? Because they are trans identifying male?

You can bet if the woman had been clapping at Luna, or in Lunas face or slapped a phone out of lunas hand, they would have been Instantly, identified by the trans lobby and media, their employer told and harassed to sack her (even though the woman was not working) and their friends and family being harassed.

No sympathy at all.

finallygotospeaktoSky · 13/05/2023 14:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/05/2023 14:35

cakeorwine · 13/05/2023 14:31

Being trans covers transmen, transwomen, non binary

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I disagree. I think a lot of trans people disagree. Non binary and trans are different.

KittyAlfred · 13/05/2023 14:38

OhComeOnFFS · 13/05/2023 13:44

I agree that Luna's name should've been kept out of the newspaper. There are some people who are transphobic who can cause Luna harm. (Those people are not the middle-aged women she hates, though.) Doxxing shouldn't be rejected by women - we know how awful that can be.

My first thought was that the name Luna had been chosen because of Luna Lovegood in Harry Potter...

I think if Luna is going to behave like that then he’s got to expect a bit of publicity. If you don’t want to be in the paper, don’t behave like a dick.

I expect this will be deleted!

AngeloMysterioso · 13/05/2023 14:38

cakeorwine · 13/05/2023 13:27

What do people think could be an outcome from this?

Media hounding?
Public hounding?

Sacked from their position.
Now named and shamed in the media.

How many GC women have been hounded through the press and social media, driven out of their jobs and harassed by the police thanks to TRAs? And now people want to wring their hands about how awful it is when they get a dose of their own medicine?

lap90 · 13/05/2023 14:39

What are you asking is reasonable or not OP?

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 13/05/2023 14:41

I wonder whether the neighbours contacted the Mail, it sounds as if Luna is not maybe the most reassuring person to live next door to. Maybe get your point of view in first, before you are subjected to an aggressive rant over bins,or parking or whatever.

Anyway, Luna bangs on a lot about proclaiming one’s identity and not giving the horrid old rest of us a peaceful time. So presumably Luna sees this as a blow for visibility.

The person behind the till in Starbucks, who was the one whose ‘identity ‘ was being ‘insulted’ by being called a lady looks terrified, and not of the middle aged customer .

KittyAlfred · 13/05/2023 14:41

booksandbrooks · 13/05/2023 13:43

Born before Harry Potter was published btw

@booksandbrooks he wouldn’t have been called Luna at birth would he. Probably had a perfectly normal male name. I think it’s hilarious that he’s changed his name to Luna, probably before all the TRAs decided that J K Rowling was evil!

cakeorwine · 13/05/2023 14:42

AngeloMysterioso · 13/05/2023 14:38

How many GC women have been hounded through the press and social media, driven out of their jobs and harassed by the police thanks to TRAs? And now people want to wring their hands about how awful it is when they get a dose of their own medicine?

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Don't worry.
Trans people are also being hounded out of their jobs and ways to earn money because of activists who God forbid should see a trans person actually trying to work and they decide to boycott the company.

Brefugee · 13/05/2023 14:42

HRTQueen · 13/05/2023 13:29

This has been blown completely out of proportion

There are incidents every day of people kicking off and being unreasonable

this incident should not be bought into the debate around self id it’s just people arguing and then others saying well you see what they are like

its like a witch hunt I’ve reported it to mn

i disagree - i think bad behaviour like this should be shown to a wide audience.

The whole non-binary/trans-issue here is a red herring. It is a complete and utter overreaction by the member of staff, it is astounding that anyone would think this were ok in any other circumstance. I'm sure the woman trying to buy a coffee could have used other words "I'm already being served by your colleague" for example, but a simple mistake of saying "she"? should not provoke such an overreaction. And companies who don't train their staff properly should be shown up like this.

I don't think there needed to be a name-reveal though and chasing down the neighbours is just nasty and provocative.

IClaudine · 13/05/2023 14:42

AngeloMysterioso · 13/05/2023 14:38

How many GC women have been hounded through the press and social media, driven out of their jobs and harassed by the police thanks to TRAs? And now people want to wring their hands about how awful it is when they get a dose of their own medicine?

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Because it has been done to others doesn't excuse it happening to this person. This person has lost their job and might be prosecuted. Hounding them further is helpful to absolutely no-one.

pecantoucan · 13/05/2023 14:42

RavenclawDiadem · 13/05/2023 13:34

Agree with this, and the paper appears to have tried to speak to Luna's neighbours and parents.

This is not OK.

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It's too much

Sevenbells · 13/05/2023 14:43

The thing is if you behave like this there may be consequences.

Luna is clapping hands in that woman's face and what I find so disturbing is the aggression, the out of control anger - you can see intimidation and the threatening nature of the behaviour, not to mention calling her a Karen.

Would that clapping have happened to a big strong man? Doubt it.

This is a new get out of jail free way to abuse older women, and I don't like it.

Don't want to be "outed" by the DM, don't treat women like that for doing nothing wrong, and you'll be fine.

KittyAlfred · 13/05/2023 14:43

AnonyMenOhPee · 13/05/2023 13:25

What reason would they have for not giving her the drinks if that’s how it went?

it must have been bad she had to go on holiday to “recuperate” according to an article I read in the Mail

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Have you watched the film? Luna was kicking her out, meaning she wouldn’t have got her drinks.

limitedperiodonly · 13/05/2023 14:44

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat · 13/05/2023 12:55

Whilst I don't agree with Luna's behaviour in the video and I am GC, this article is completely unnecessary. Why on earth did the Daily Mail feel the need to do this? Completely disproportionate response to an incident Luna has 1. Been sacked for and 2. Investigated by the police. This is not okay.

Who are you to say what is necessary?

That's like saying: "He was caught with his hands in the till/down someone's pants/clutching a glass of wine at a No 10 party during lockdown. but let's wait for the police investigation/Sue Gray's report/draw a line under it and move on."

Would you agree that was a good thing? Perhaps you would, but I wouldn't.

I don't care whether you're GC. I am too. But I want the follow up on this story. It has been legitimately done. Luna is flying below radar but the Daily Mail have approached Luna's dad, who has declined to comment as it his right. I would do that too if I identified as Luna's dad.

The comments from Luna's neighbours and former school friends paint a picture of someone who is a little challenging and perhaps not suited to a customer-facing role.

Again, fine. Luna can talk to a journalist from a more sympathetic outlet if he wants. I'm sure he will be able to find one if he looks hard enough. In fact, there will be many people banging on his door to get his side. Now he has lost his job, he has plenty of time to do it.

KittyAlfred · 13/05/2023 14:44

Sevenbells · 13/05/2023 14:43

The thing is if you behave like this there may be consequences.

Luna is clapping hands in that woman's face and what I find so disturbing is the aggression, the out of control anger - you can see intimidation and the threatening nature of the behaviour, not to mention calling her a Karen.

Would that clapping have happened to a big strong man? Doubt it.

This is a new get out of jail free way to abuse older women, and I don't like it.

Don't want to be "outed" by the DM, don't treat women like that for doing nothing wrong, and you'll be fine.

Exactly.

PriOn1 · 13/05/2023 14:45

There is some public interest if this angry and aggressive individual is campaigning actively for the right for men to be allowed in women’s spaces. There is way more information in the article than is necessary to make the above point though.

A good reminder though that if you view women as easy targets, you might find yourself on the receiving end of more than you bargained for.

pecantoucan · 13/05/2023 14:47

limitedperiodonly · 13/05/2023 14:44

Who are you to say what is necessary?

That's like saying: "He was caught with his hands in the till/down someone's pants/clutching a glass of wine at a No 10 party during lockdown. but let's wait for the police investigation/Sue Gray's report/draw a line under it and move on."

Would you agree that was a good thing? Perhaps you would, but I wouldn't.

I don't care whether you're GC. I am too. But I want the follow up on this story. It has been legitimately done. Luna is flying below radar but the Daily Mail have approached Luna's dad, who has declined to comment as it his right. I would do that too if I identified as Luna's dad.

The comments from Luna's neighbours and former school friends paint a picture of someone who is a little challenging and perhaps not suited to a customer-facing role.

Again, fine. Luna can talk to a journalist from a more sympathetic outlet if he wants. I'm sure he will be able to find one if he looks hard enough. In fact, there will be many people banging on his door to get his side. Now he has lost his job, he has plenty of time to do it.

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He is Luna's dad - he doesn't "identify" as Luna's dad.

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat · 13/05/2023 14:47

limitedperiodonly · 13/05/2023 14:44

Who are you to say what is necessary?

That's like saying: "He was caught with his hands in the till/down someone's pants/clutching a glass of wine at a No 10 party during lockdown. but let's wait for the police investigation/Sue Gray's report/draw a line under it and move on."

Would you agree that was a good thing? Perhaps you would, but I wouldn't.

I don't care whether you're GC. I am too. But I want the follow up on this story. It has been legitimately done. Luna is flying below radar but the Daily Mail have approached Luna's dad, who has declined to comment as it his right. I would do that too if I identified as Luna's dad.

The comments from Luna's neighbours and former school friends paint a picture of someone who is a little challenging and perhaps not suited to a customer-facing role.

Again, fine. Luna can talk to a journalist from a more sympathetic outlet if he wants. I'm sure he will be able to find one if he looks hard enough. In fact, there will be many people banging on his door to get his side. Now he has lost his job, he has plenty of time to do it.

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This isn't a follow up though is it? It doesn't give any more information about the incident.

I am allowed an opinion and I find it unnecessary, you are quite entitled to feel differently.

booksandbrooks · 13/05/2023 14:49

@KittyAlfred I don't doubt it. I was replying to the poster who said Luna was a dog's name.

booksandbrooks · 13/05/2023 14:49

Criticising abhorrent misogynists is grand, but Luna is a women's name. The Luna this thread is about isn't a woman, but tbh I don't care what anyone calls themselves, it's their actions and expectations around women's dignity, privacy, sports etc that I'll judge.

BishyBarnyBee · 13/05/2023 14:49

The Mail article is as usual a pile of shit. Luna's neighbours are actually saying Luna is lovely, but they are now afraid of offending Luna because of what they've seen in the media. There is no evidence of Luna being aggressive before.

There is evidence of Luna being someone who stands up for what they believe in - which is what they think they are doing here. I actually think it's important that their motivation is to defend a co-worker.

At the point the video starts, we have no idea what the customer has already done, but she, not Luna, is the one shouting loudest.

Luna's behaviour does then escalate to an unnacceptable level of aggression, and the behaviour towards the camera person is totally unacceptable.

But I wouldn't take the Daily Mail's contribution as adding anything useful to the way we understand what happened and not for the first time, think some Mumsnet users are happily getting into bed with some very dodgy forces.