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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

ID of Starbucks non binary Southampton manager revealed

269 replies

Birthdaygirltoday33 · 13/05/2023 12:42

Their name is Luna Spain

DM link:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12077475/Starbucks-manager-sacked-transphobia-rant-activist-terrifies-neighbours.html?ico=related-replace

OP posts:
Pixiedust1234 · 13/05/2023 14:05

Normally I wouldn't agree with naming the worker unless they have been charged but they haven't yet. However....if you are a loud activist then don't be surprised if you do eventually get named. Sounds like their long term angry behaviour is coming back to bite them tbh.

waterlego · 13/05/2023 14:11

I’m as GC as they come but I don’t think the DM should have published this. What does it achieve? It will just invite vile comments and possible RL harassment from ACTUAL ‘anti-trans’ (as opposed to GC) people, such as right wingers and homophobes which will be wrongly attributed to GC people. The best thing to do with someone like Luna is to not give them any attention at all, including negative. These sorts of people live their lives on Social Media. It’ll get really unpleasant on Twitter, which won’t be good for anyone’s mental health.

Luna drew attention to themselves by behaving like a dickhead at work. Luna already looks very bad, I don’t think the DM needed to try and add to that. Especially all those photos lifted off social media.

As an aside, Luna sounds every bit as awful as we all suspected. I hope they get the help they need.

waterlego · 13/05/2023 14:13

If the DM hadn’t published it, someone would have outed Luna on Twitter anyway, but that’s not really the point. Don’t sink to that level!

Christopherrobinn · 13/05/2023 14:14

I think losing their job was plenty for the incident. Sharing all of their pictures and schooling information seems way OTT and almost as bad as doxing

Sallyh87 · 13/05/2023 14:15

What pray tell is the difference between trans and non binary?! Not really the point but I think at the grand old age of 35 I am now completely out of it all!

marapournumber4 · 13/05/2023 14:15

thirdfiddle · 13/05/2023 13:55

Confused. Why is everyone in this thread and the article 'she'-ing Luna? I thought Luna was a) male, and b) loudly and aggressively a 'they/them'. Aren't they the person with the earrings that everyone fails to notice read THEY/THEM and wonders why wearing dangly geometric earrings are supposed to code NB? Or do they just look similar?

To refer to a vocal and locally well known campaigner by name when they have been recorded committing a crime in the name of their activism? I'm not convinced that's all that shocking, though don't read the mail enough to know what their crime reporting usually looks like. Not like any actual transphobes in Luna's neighbourhood are going to fail to notice they're trans. You can't 'pass' as NB if you wanted to.

Thank you!!!!!
I was wondering why the fuck people were calling this very obvious man "she". It's like it's been written by the police!
Also not sure it these questions were answered
GC - Gender critical ( a feminist who does not believe that a transwoman is a woman is a very quick explanation)
Doxxing - tracking someone down through their social media to find their real name and address etc

Gothambutnotahamster · 13/05/2023 14:17

7Worfs · 13/05/2023 13:38

To all those saying the article is unnecessary, I say - do you want such people in women’s spaces, with access to vulnerable girls and women?

It is necessary to demonstrate the rampant aggression, violence and misogyny in the self-ID community.

Completely agree with this as without evidence no one believes us & says our concerns are unwarranted or 'it'll never happen' !

JuneShitfield · 13/05/2023 14:19

Urgh. This is reminiscent of those Ugandan ‘name and shame’ newspapers where they publish pictures and identifying information of gay men. They’ve crossed a line here IMO.

It’s entirely possible to be both publicly GC and also not hound individuals all over the media.

AutumnCrow · 13/05/2023 14:20

I wonder if the name is a play on words? Luna Spain, Luna's Pain.

Somanysocks · 13/05/2023 14:21

Luna is certainly aptly named.

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/05/2023 14:21

This is unnecessary and cruel. Also, they do not identify as a woman. We have no clue how they feel about women only spaces. They clearly don't want to be treated as a female.

They behaved poorly and lost their job. Enough is enough.

AutumnCrow · 13/05/2023 14:22

There's an editors' code of conduct or something that means that people can't be misgendered even if it's a self-ID situation.

Changeforachange · 13/05/2023 14:23

Yeh, not keen at all. I'm GC.

The natural consequences for this individual were to lose their job for being grossly unprofessional and police involvement for the attack on the camera man. There's the message that this behaviour won't be tolerated.

The video has already been widely shown, the person's friends & family already knew it was them... This article just invites weird strangers to seek Luna out on social media and hound them further & potentially make them into some TRA martyr.

Nope. Not cool.

thirdfiddle · 13/05/2023 14:24

There's an editors' code of conduct or something that means that people can't be misgendered even if it's a self-ID situation.
If Luna is "they/them" then calling them she is misgendering. Or will any old wrong pronouns do?

waterlego · 13/05/2023 14:25

@Sallyh87, non-binary people are trans, but not all trans people are NB 😀 Trans is an umbrella term encompassing several different things including being gender neutral or non-binary. These individuals don’t ‘feel’ male or female, or they might feel like they’re both. Or more masculine sometimes and more feminine at other times. Or they might feel like fluffgender on Tuesdays and carpgender on all the other days. There are infinite possible ways to signify to the world how special and interesting you are(n’t).

Pluvia · 13/05/2023 14:25

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat · 13/05/2023 12:55

Whilst I don't agree with Luna's behaviour in the video and I am GC, this article is completely unnecessary. Why on earth did the Daily Mail feel the need to do this? Completely disproportionate response to an incident Luna has 1. Been sacked for and 2. Investigated by the police. This is not okay.

Very odd for someone who is GC to not understand how important this is.

We're always being told by politicians and those with influence that both sides are as bad as each other — but we're not. GC people don't go round threatening people, trying to intimidate women who attend rallies, trying to prevent women from getting into buildings in order to hear other women speak and so on. It's good to have more evidence of the reality.

For years GC people have been pointing out that trying to insist that everyone addresses transpeople precisely as they wish to be addressed, even if that requires us to lie, is bonkers. You can't control the rest of the world's response to you and complain of being victimised and threatened with genocide if someone like this woman innocently uses a 'wrong' you don't like — which was actually the right word, because the other colleague was female and therefore traditionally referred to as a lady.

It also very clearly exposes the emotional fragility and lack of regulation that so many of us have encountered in our dealings with trans people. Many of us will have been screamed at in that way but don't have any evidence to show for it. So it's really important people see it.

Conkersinautumn · 13/05/2023 14:26

Do you work for them? Why are you advertising the DM. Exciting to think they're desperate gor traffic. Maybe MN gets revenue from the DM. They do seem the most popular paper on here now.

ilovesooty · 13/05/2023 14:27

IClaudine · 13/05/2023 13:30

I don't think there is any need to hound this woman. She's been sacked. She may or may not be prosecuted. That's enough punishment. Shame on the DM.

Agreed.

literalviolence · 13/05/2023 14:27

waterlego · 13/05/2023 14:11

I’m as GC as they come but I don’t think the DM should have published this. What does it achieve? It will just invite vile comments and possible RL harassment from ACTUAL ‘anti-trans’ (as opposed to GC) people, such as right wingers and homophobes which will be wrongly attributed to GC people. The best thing to do with someone like Luna is to not give them any attention at all, including negative. These sorts of people live their lives on Social Media. It’ll get really unpleasant on Twitter, which won’t be good for anyone’s mental health.

Luna drew attention to themselves by behaving like a dickhead at work. Luna already looks very bad, I don’t think the DM needed to try and add to that. Especially all those photos lifted off social media.

As an aside, Luna sounds every bit as awful as we all suspected. I hope they get the help they need.

I think saying "Luna behaving like a dichkead" is really minimising what Luna did. It is more than behaving like a dickhead when you physically assault people and even more so when those people are not anything like matched to your young male strength. Luna behaved like a dickhead when he expected everyone to remember everyone's pronouns and not call a woman a woman. Luna did an awful lot more than that when Luna intimidated a woman and then physically assaulted a man because he wanted the evidence of his verbal aggression and intimidation to be hidden. I'm all up for calling a spade a spade but this is a digger not a spade.

BonnieBobbin · 13/05/2023 14:27

The DailyMail isn't on the gc side here. As you can tell by their ludicrous use of 'she' to the extent it obscures the meaning of sentences.
Customer service staff sometimes break and behave badly and get sacked. That doesn't mean they need an article on their entire life history, full name and where they live. This isn't journalism. It's bullshit.
And yy I am gc. I don't agree with doxxing. And I don't agree with articles dancing round with pronouns and hints at 'they had a different name at school'. The DailyMail is just shit stirring and playing right into the TRAs' hands with this article.

SunnyCoco · 13/05/2023 14:28

Thanks for those explaining the GC terminology, I'm aware I need to educate myself more on this, so I appreciate your help.

cakeorwine · 13/05/2023 14:28

Some people seem to be confusing the video with the naming and shaming of this person by the Daily Mail.

The video shows their actions. People have seen that. There have been consequences.

Naming someone, going to their parents, friends, neighbours...and then running that in the media in a worldwide publication. Is that acceptable?

Or is acceptable because it's someone who is trans?

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/05/2023 14:29

Luna is not trans. They are not a woman. They don't identify as a woman. It's interesting that's the pronoun being used.
They lost their job and have the police involved. Doxing them is not ok.

cakeorwine · 13/05/2023 14:31

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/05/2023 14:29

Luna is not trans. They are not a woman. They don't identify as a woman. It's interesting that's the pronoun being used.
They lost their job and have the police involved. Doxing them is not ok.

Being trans covers transmen, transwomen, non binary

waterlego · 13/05/2023 14:31

@literalviolence, you’re not wrong. After I hit ‘post’ I actually had that thought. Oh, for an edit function but yes, Luna was aggressive, unstable, alarming and physically violent from what we see at the end of the video. He deserves to lose his job and he deserves to be investigated by the police. I don’t think doxxing is appropriate at all.