To be appalled by school toilet restrictions

[GoodWitch65]

Had a period talk with my DD age 11 and mentioned to have a pouch with sanitary products to be kept in her school bag just in case. She told me they are not allowed to use toilets at school during the class, only during the break. I was very surprised, growing up in European country this was never a problem in my school, everyone was allowed to use toilets whenever they needed. Spoke to a friend of mine, her kids go to another school, apparently this a standart practice I just can't wrap my head around how and why? My friend's DS used to have frequent kidney infections and wasn't allowed to use the toilet when he needed to, she had to get a note from GP to make him 'exempt' from the rules so he could use the toilet. Also her DD has started her period and had asked to use the toilet but was told no, poor girl had bled through her clothes, left a blood stain on her chair and got told off by the teacher for doing so! My friend sent numerous complaints to school but no to avail. I feel like I want to make some changes in 'toilet rules' at school but not sure where to start. It's a basic human need, even prisoners get to use the toilet when they need, why would primary school children be denied?

And they have both suffered embarrasing period accidents.

The school I teach in just has a “one at a time” rule. So longest anyone would have to wait is a few mins til person before them came back. You do get piss takers though who will be 25 mins and then the toilets magically flood etc and that’s a primary school. Can’t imagine coping with all the vaping/phones/meeting pals nonsense at a secondary.

Catching up with the comments.
The girl I was talking about in my OP (friend's DD) wasn't wearing any sanitary protection, started her period after lunch, wasn't allowed to use the toilet therefore stained the chair and was humiliated in front of the whole class.
I suppose I didn't really think of a big scale vandalism, violence and drug use that could possibly happen in school toilets as my DD goes to a small primary school in our local village that isn't known for any of those things therefore I was very surprised when she told me kids are not allowed to use the toilet during the class.

Expecting someone to sit in their period blood for hours is rank and what you think is a heavy period dosent sound heavy at all, as i said i would and still leak within seconds, i pass 6cm bloodclot which is full of blood followed by a running stream of bloo,i would use 2-3 night towels.At nights i would need incontinence pants so i wouldnt leak all over the bed and would have a chance to change.

It’s very tricky, I can see both sides of the situation.
(BTW I do really recommend period pants as they really help reduce leaks. Primark and Sainsbury’s sell them now, they have got a lot cheaper).

Both my kid’s secondary school have a rule of no toilet during lesson time. At one school this was because of kids taking drugs in the toilets. At the other it was because of the constant vandalism of toilets - the school could simply not afford the repair bills anymore.

During break times the teachers and lunch duty staff are on patrol in the corridors to keep an eye on things, but during lesson time there aren’t enough staff to monitor all the corridors, so if kids are out of lessons this is usually when the bad behaviour happens (vandalism, bullying etc).

Students with medical needs do have a toilet pass. So it’s better for them because they know they can go during lesson without running into the trouble-makers and bullies.

It is a shame but basically the minority have ruined it for the majority.

Children with significant needs or who are very troubled are placed in schools who do not have the resources or staff to manage them. So the only option the schools have is to bring in stricter rules to try and keep some sort of order. It’s not ideal, everyone knows that.

I agree with other posters, the situation of is also a symptom of the general lack of respect children have for others, for their teachers, and for the school as a whole. They know if they get into trouble their parents will back them up and there are no consequences for their actions. It is very difficult to expel students now (and what happens to them then? That’s a whole other issue).

The government and the media have not helped with their constant criticisms of the teaching profession and the idea that schools are like businesses.
How else did they think this was going to play out?

It was standard when I was at school. You knew you had to go a break times. You were allowed if necessary in the case of periods etc. Have schools grown in size so less toilets for pupils to access at certain times? Not sure what has changed as it didn't seem a problem in the past.

Circethemagician
I've noticed that change in the time I've been teaching.

My personal opinion is that people should be able to go to the bathroom when they need to as long as they work is getting done and the behaviour is fine. That was fine and the norm when I started teaching. Different teachers had slightly different ways of managing it in their classroom but it wasn't a big deal.

Child attitudes and parental attitudes to school have changed drastically.

Why couldn't she change it before starting the lesson I wonder.

Eh because often you only have two minutes between lessons? And you can get in trouble if you are not on time to the next class.

I remember my class times were

9.00- 9.40.
Then
9.40 - 10.20

There was no break in between at all.

Stating the blindingly obvious here but children are not adults and so the comparison is unreasonable.

Also periods start without warning for many so the point about going at designated times doesn't stand up.

Decent teachers don't restrict toilet breaks.

Why do non-teachers assume that the kid is asking to go to the toilet because they need the toilet?

In Germany girls over 10/11 (secondary school was yr 5) were always allowed to go, and boys were not allowed. Seemed to work.

Well tough because it is. Ableism at its finest.

Why do non-teachers assume that the kid is asking to go to the toilet because they need the toilet?

Because they apparently haven't a clue what actual children (other than their own) are like, especially en masse. I love teaching and mostly really enjoy working with kids, but many people are extremely naïve about the motivations and behaviour of children, especially teenagers. Allowing them greater freedoms and always giving them the benefit of the doubt is a lovely idea, but it doesn't work very well in practice when there are over a thousand of them in one place and many of them have no desire to be there or to cooperate much.

She said "unless they have...medical needs". How is this ableism at its finest or otherwise?

I get very frustrated by the number of teenage girls referred to paediatrics for recurrent urinary problems. What do they all have in common? They're drinking next to nothing all day because they're so scared they won't be let go to the toilet. These policies are literally making children ill.

But this culture and ethos comes from homes where education is valued and parents have high expectations of their children's behaviour and academic achievements. Sadly this is not the case for many parents in the UK. We have recently had many students arrive at our school from Hong Kong and the difference in their attitude to school is quite staggering.

Biology isn't convenient sometimes.

“Decent teachers let kids leave the classroom whenever they like”

And because there’s often no fucking time!

Decent teachers don't restrict toilet breaks

hahahahahah!

when all else fails, let’s hit ‘em where we think it hurts, eh?, right in the professionalism.

Decent teachers shouldn’t have to be dealing with the day in day out shit of teenagers who think they can do whatever they want, when they want.

This is why we’re leaving in ever-increasing numbers, why experienced staff are almost non-exisistent in some schools and why recruitment numbers aren’t met. You don’t have one clue what it’s like to be in a classroom, the responsibilities that holds and the behaviour of even good teenagers when the mood takes them.

Coming from another European country we are allowed to go to toilet whenever even if its more than once in 45mins (duration of a lesson),and I never did any of the things you mentioned or saw anyone do then either and during my 12 years of education i never smelt a cigarette or anything else suspcious in the bathrooms.

Perhaps there is something wrong with the british education system where students have nothing to fear?

You know what was scary,beside occasional physical punishment aka sports teacher making you run laps after school, having to stay back to help the cleaner out to clean the floors etc- if you angered the wrong teacher who was going to go extra tough on your exam papers and made you repeat the year- yes, a whole year repeating the same class with younger schoolmates and seeing your own class graduate a year or more before you.

Everyone behaved and there were no bjs,smoking or other nonsense mentioned above.

Lessons are 1 hr long at most - then there is a chance to go to the toilet. How do you think 20 and 30s something female teachers manage? Do you think they leave a class on their own to go to the loo mid lesson?

Surely you are aware that not all disablilities are physical.

Some neurodiverse kids get incredibly anxious about going to the toilet and need to go more often or at quieter times ( not breaks when its crowded and noisy). They may be more prone to UTIs due to restricting fluids because of this anxiety. Many girls with additional needs present younger emotionally and are not necessarily equipped to deal with periods at the level of their peers.

The state of the NHS means often years on a waiting list for a SEN diagnosis and often schools aren't supportive until its in place. Teachers should not be determing medical needs.

Did the child ask to go to the toilet, or did they discretely inform the teacher that they NEEDED to go to the toilet?

I'm a teacher. Kids (and teachers) are expected to use the toilets before school, at break time, and at lunch time. Or even quickly between lessons. Not during lesson times.

Most children have good bladder control by the age of 5 and can wait 2 to 3 hours. Those that have poor bladder control or other medical issues meaning they need to leave a classroom, they are issued with medical cards so no issues there.

If I girl told me she NEEDED to go to the toilet, I'd obviously let her go. Some discretely write it on a piece of paper.