To be appalled by school toilet restrictions

[GoodWitch65]

Had a period talk with my DD age 11 and mentioned to have a pouch with sanitary products to be kept in her school bag just in case. She told me they are not allowed to use toilets at school during the class, only during the break. I was very surprised, growing up in European country this was never a problem in my school, everyone was allowed to use toilets whenever they needed. Spoke to a friend of mine, her kids go to another school, apparently this a standart practice I just can't wrap my head around how and why? My friend's DS used to have frequent kidney infections and wasn't allowed to use the toilet when he needed to, she had to get a note from GP to make him 'exempt' from the rules so he could use the toilet. Also her DD has started her period and had asked to use the toilet but was told no, poor girl had bled through her clothes, left a blood stain on her chair and got told off by the teacher for doing so! My friend sent numerous complaints to school but no to avail. I feel like I want to make some changes in 'toilet rules' at school but not sure where to start. It's a basic human need, even prisoners get to use the toilet when they need, why would primary school children be denied?

Teachers should not be determing medical needs.

So you think that teachers should allow all children to leave the classroom whenever they like in case they have a medical need that has not been communicated to the school by the parents?

I was married to one so yes do have a clue.

The vast majority of teachers appear to be able to treat children with respect and empathy and have enough emotional intelligence to deal with this issue without any problems. If they can't do that then they aren't a decent teacher and will be of no great loss to the professsion.

The vast majority of teachers appear to be able to treat children with respect and empathy and have enough emotional intelligence to deal with this issue without any problems. If they can't do that then they aren't a decent teacher and will be of no great loss to the professsio

Its senior management who set the rules. Not a class teacher. So it’s not up to a ‘decent’ teacher.

We have recently had many students arrive at our school from Hong Kong and the difference in their attitude to school is quite staggering
It doesn't surprise me.
I've had some friends who have moved internationally to the UK for work and some have chosen to send their children back to their home country to live with their other parent and grandparents because they were so disgusted at the poor attitudes to education from (in their view) a sizable number of parents/students. They decided that whilst their home education system had its flaws, they didn't want their children in an environment where disrespect for education and staff was so dominant.
I remember one saying she liked her son's teachers "but what can they do when the parents allow their children to behave like that?"

So how do they deal with this problem without any issue?

Because allowing free access to toilets to all children with no restrictions certainly causes issues.

I remember at the start of Y6, as part of his introduction, our teacher announced that we were too old to ask permission to go to the toilet. Instead, we were to just leave and say "sir, I'm going to the toilet" on the way, or if he was talking and it couldn't wait, just make sure he could see us and gesture in the direction.

It worked fine, though we were annoyed to go back to asking again in Y7. Though even in secondary there was still no restrictions, you just asked and got told yes.

My kid's Y4 teacher knocks 2 minutes off play for using toilet in class time, but she can't get the classroom drama/bullying under control to save her life, whereas there was absolutely nothing like this last year with the same cohort and an older, more experienced teacher. Pathetic.

My Y4 teacher controlled roughly the same number of kids, with no TA, jammed into a tiny portakabin.

If she needed to go to the loo or talk to another teacher, she would put one of the goodie-goodies in front of the board with instructions to write the name of any kid who spoke or moved from their chair for her to deal with on her return.

If you zoned out while she was talking, a thrown marker would bounce off your desk to wake you up.

I think a lot of these stupid blanket restrictions are there to compensate for teachers being expected to be fluffy bunnies instead of commanding respect.

BS. No one stops kids from using toilets at appropriate time, if they prefer to talk over breaktime rather than going to the toilet tough luck.
99% of the time whe it was not urgent and the kid could wait and after a few weeks of knowing they wont be able to go whenever wherever they stopped asking and surprise, turned out no one really needed a toilet during the lesson unless they had a medical pass. Urgent cases are really rare.

Ugh my disabled daughter can’t wait, and she’s frequently denied because of such rules. Well all that came to an abrupt end when I get a call from the school to collect her. I live 45 minutes from the nearest school so drove in. She was letting out wails like in childbirth, it was awful, crying, hot and actually delirious. Straight to A&E. Anyway king story short, we found out that she had been made to wait so many times or denied access to the accessible toilet as well, and had stopped drinking water at school as she was terrified she would wet herself in class.

the Doctor wrote to the school and now she can use the damn toilet. It really shouldn’t matter if other children have misbehaved in the past, if I child needs, they need.

when I was at high school a teacher actually saved a classmates life. She had been begging for the loo so often, crying with needing and he’d agreed but asked for a note from home confirming she’d been to a doctor. Turns out she was a type 1 diabetic, and had been seriously close to coming to harm as it had been missed for so long. He was a tough teacher, but he recognised genuine need when he saw it.

I work in a secondary school and have worked in the SEN unit of another. I've also worked with SEN children in primary school. They absolutely do allow children to have personal passes to leave for the toilet and make many other adjustments if there is the need for it, whether they have a diagnosis or not.

Maybe in the schools you've worked in things are done differently but fortunately that isn't the case in most places.

I assumed that person you quoted (and immediately branded ableist) meant to include SEN, but was just writing quickly. I don't think she deserved to be accused of ableism at all

Thats not what I said. As I said the vast majority of teachers have enough nous to be able to deal with this without a problem.

No child should be left in pain or soiled and humiliated as a result and if a teacher thinks that is perfectly acceptable they are a disgrace to their profession.

She had been begging for the loo so often, crying with needing and he’d agreed but asked for a note from home confirming she’d been to a doctor. Turns out she was a type 1 diabetic, and had been seriously close to coming to harm as it had been missed for so long. He was a tough teacher, but he recognised genuine need when he saw it

Not letting her go to the toilet wouldn't have hanged that outcome. She still would have been type 1.

I think we are usually able to recognise genuine need - it is usually wrapped up in a quietly delivered request to go to the loo. Those that scream about their rights and kick off whilst holding a huge water bottle and keep swigging from it....we don't tend to recognise that 'need'. For what it's worth, I wouldn't deny a quietly delivered request for any child, particularly a girl because of the period issue. Manners cost sod all.

De registered my dd due to these rules and now home educate . Even with a toilet pass for medical issues we still had huge problems it wasn’t recognised or the toilets were all locked anyway !

No teacher wants a child to be soiled or distressed. We also don't want them to self-harm, be offered vapes, be sexually assaulted, called names or not even be able to go to the loo because they are full of other kids doing the above and more.

Why is no one listening to us telling you that toilets in schools are not particularly safe for vulnerable or well-behaved pupils during lesson times?

Sorry, and are less safe the more relaxed your toilet policy is.

I wrote as a parent of dc who wasn't supported prior to the EHCP and as an active member of several local groups of parents of SEN kids where it is a very common problem. Glad to hear its different in other places.

The other poster omitted to say that and readers can only respond to what is written.

No one has said that this is acceptable, so no idea why you are claiming they do.

You said “decent teachers don’t restrict toilet breaks”

But now you are saying that you didn’t mean that children should be allowed to leave the classroom when they like.

So if a child asks to go to the toilet to get to leave the classroom, you agree that it is sometimes acceptable to say no?

How does that square with decent teachers not restricting toilet breaks?

I agree that a small number spoil it for the others. I've heard of kids arranging to meet kids from other classes at a particular time. Also kids vandalising toilets or even boyfriends and girlfriends meeting up so they can be unsupervised. You can imagine the fuss from parents if their daughter got pregnant at school. Even dirty protests.
Schools where this won't happen are able to let kids go to the loo when they want. That was the case at the school i went to. But it's not really teachers' fault if a minority are brought up to have no respect in UK schools. Blame the people bringing their kids up like that, not schools.

Indeed! But you still didn't need to respond as you did.

Sorry you haven't had the support you need for your DC. It isn't exactly perfect where I am either, as we are short staffed and under funded. But I will say that children do get as much support as is possible as soon as it is requested and there is no policy of 'only after diagnosis'.

There are some children who benefited from 1:1 but weren't legally entitled to it as they did not have EHCPs for example. But where I worked previously they almost always had a 1:1 or at least a 1:2 anyway.

I teach In a PRU. Each child is allowed to use the toilet in every lesson once. They are escorted there and Back by a TA. The toilets are locked.
They ALL use the toilet and if you ask them to wait for more than five minutes they scream and shout. Some will just walk out. They run in and out of other classrooms. They vape in the loo and we have to check in between uses. It disrupts every lesson.
It's a huge problem. And just for arguments sake we have one staff loo and I have one break (that I inevitably don't have)

I once worked in a school when a student needed a teachers pass thst activated the locks on the toilet. SLT could then monitor how many times you let a student use the toilet.

These teachers where then publicly shamed in a staff briefing and, as an academy, we couldn't get a union rep on the premises to be able to discuss this with leadership. I left very quickly.

For the record I use my own professional judgement about letting students use the toilet. But we have to be so careful; the safeguarding issues from having a student without supervision have risen at least 10 fold in the last 5 years. I've been the member of staff to get through a door as suicide had been attempted, we have fighting, vaping, drug taking, blowjobs.... all in a highly regarded good school.

The problem is general discipline and respect in society. Most parents will not support us disciplining their children appropriately, they will challenge us on minor issues like multiple piercings and constant mobile phone use. We have parents who are banned from the premises because of their behaviour with reception staff and leadership.

It should be a priority not a luxury list. I’m a single parent with no help and my daughter has them - it was a far cheaper cost in the long run.

this are some of the more expensive ones but I said decent not expensive. These are the most expensive ones …..
https://www.modibodi.co.uk/products/red-bikini-7-pack-atomic-blue

you often get 50% off or sale and 10% off your order.

my m and s ones were 3 pants for £12 in the sale. 3 pants are fine but 6 is better. Rinse and dry. That was £24 two years ago and I got 9 pants as they were 3 for 2.

my daughter has extreme heavy periods and won’t use the toilets for a variety of reasons.

How much are you paying for towels and tampons? I figured a years cost into it and it made sense daughter hasn’t looked back.

Do you have any idea the life some children have with their parents?

Do you know that girls suffer from period poverty?

You can talk as much as you want about what should happen. I agree. But it doesn’t.

That’s one reason why school give girls free sanitary products. Girls were, still are, missing school because of period poverty.

Wind your neck in.

I have 2 teenage DDs in High School and the toilets are locked, except during break and lunch. I have asked the school to reverse this decision numerous times over the years, but they insist they remain locked. Apparently they get kids skiving from lessons, congregating in cubicles and vaping. I still think it's up to the school to manage this, rather than prevent people from using the toilet when they need to.

There are a couple of 'Teachers Only' toilets dotted around, which remain unlocked unless in use (because of course an adult should be able to use the loo whenever they need to!🙄) I have told my daughters that any time they need to use the toilet and genuinely can not wait until the next break, then they should ask the teacher to be excused and if the teacher refuses, they should go anyway and I will deal with any fallout. I'd rather they got a telling off or detention than wet themselves or bleed through their uniforms in front of the whole class - and so would they!

Apparently they get kids skiving from lessons, congregating in cubicles and vaping. I still think it's up to the school to manage this

How?

Love to hear your bright ideas.

Bear in mind that they can't cost anything.

I work in a “good” school too. Our large pupil toilets have had to be closed due to the amount of damage done to them. Each corridor has 2 disabled toilets which pupils are now allowed to use, which also means we have to share them with the kids. They are leaving them in terrible state too.

in my S1 class the other day 9 pupils asked to go to the toilet before I’d even finished the starter activity. There’s only 15 in the class in the first place! It’s getting ridiculous.