To be appalled by school toilet restrictions

[GoodWitch65]

Had a period talk with my DD age 11 and mentioned to have a pouch with sanitary products to be kept in her school bag just in case. She told me they are not allowed to use toilets at school during the class, only during the break. I was very surprised, growing up in European country this was never a problem in my school, everyone was allowed to use toilets whenever they needed. Spoke to a friend of mine, her kids go to another school, apparently this a standart practice I just can't wrap my head around how and why? My friend's DS used to have frequent kidney infections and wasn't allowed to use the toilet when he needed to, she had to get a note from GP to make him 'exempt' from the rules so he could use the toilet. Also her DD has started her period and had asked to use the toilet but was told no, poor girl had bled through her clothes, left a blood stain on her chair and got told off by the teacher for doing so! My friend sent numerous complaints to school but no to avail. I feel like I want to make some changes in 'toilet rules' at school but not sure where to start. It's a basic human need, even prisoners get to use the toilet when they need, why would primary school children be denied?

There are a large group of parents at our school who are really unhappy about the situation and we have volunteered to take turns in patrolling - we even offered to cover the costs of the CRB/DBS checks ourselves, but the school said it "wasn't feasible".

Alternatively, we have suggested that they keep the cubicles next to Reception open all day, so kids would have to walk past the front desk to use them. Reception staff would spot large groups going in together, could check every now and then or if they hear lots of noise coming from them.

I would suggest that anyone found skiving in the toilets during lesson time should be given detention and anyone caught vaping should be suspended.

I don't have a "magic answer" (I wish I did!), but I don't think that the students should all be punished because of the behaviour of a few.

DBS checked parents on a rota has shit show written all over it. What happens when the kids start telling you to fuck off, or push you out the way?

It's not reception staffs job to monitor toilets. They have their own reception jobs to do (probably 1.5 jobs worth at current school funding level).

The students aren't being punished. 2 hours without a toilet isn't a human rights abuse. It's normal in plenty of walks of life.

I was just about to reply the same way. No parent would put up with the language, attitude and physical violence that we see in schools. My brother, a paramedic, did teach for a short while but left so that he didn't risk losing his career for hitting a student back after being headbutted.

That’s not a normal period so that would come under medical conditions and warrants serious investigations but most periods are normal.

Also how dare you say my daughter who at the age of 16 is under the care of a consultant at the hospital due to her painful, long and heavy periods - isn’t suffering and I don’t know what I’m talking about. Period poverty is a thing

san pro is free in state secondary schools and many companies will give a very subsidised rate for reusable Menstrual cups eg £10 for low income families. Support is also available from GP surgeries, libraries and via FSM programme - reusable san pro eg period pants can be brought at a much lower price or even given for free.

https://asancup.com/blogs/blogs/period-poverty-in-the-uk?gad=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIntzew5zz_gIVyrHtCh10awIpEAAYAiAAEgJG3PD_BwE

I brought 9 heavy duty period pants from M and S in the sale 3 packs for the price of two for £24. A pair of school shoes costs more.

Teachers can’t go into pupils toilets under safeguarding. 2021

Yes and you see parents with contempt for teachers on mumsnet threads. Those people are part of the problem as they pass their attitudes on to their kids.

we have volunteered to take turns in patrolling

YES! Let's get all the parents who think they know better than schools how to run schools to have a go at 'patrolling' the corridors.

Teachers can be told it's now a free-for-all because the parents are on the case. All the vandals, vapers and shaggers are good to be allowed out, all they need to do is say the magic words "I need the toilet" and off they go.

And the parents will see just how much control they have, over a bunch of kids whose names they don't know and who have no respect for their 'authority'.

Bring it on.

We have started logging on class charts (no negative given) when pupils go to the toilet during lesson time. It was very enlightening, some pupils asked to go in every lesson. Either they urgently need to see a doctor or they’re avoiding work.

Every single person who has a story like this knows a child who bled through their clothes in class, it is beginning to sound much like all those people who knew someone who got run over by a bus during covid!! I say cancel all school trips, if children can't hold their bladder for an hour then they surely can't manage a coach ride to Alton Towers or the like can they? Sorry it is pathetic unless SEN there is no need at all.

I got my Dd(15) monthly behaviour reports recently and I noticed a negative point on there with a note saying toilet break during lesson time !!! WTF since when is a human right to use the restroom a negative behaviour:(:(

Your daughter clearly doesn’t have heavy periods if she’s able to use Modibodi without any toilet breaks. I have always soaked through 2 pads an hour (since I was 10) & for me I needed toilet breaks despite wearing two pairs of underwear with 4 pads layered in them. Modi bodi’s highest strength didn’t work 30mins for me.

That really doesn’t sound normal. You must be very anaemic.

Most periods might be normal which is irrevelant as schools whack no toilet rule on everyone. i personally did not get on with tampons or cups, tampons leaked still needed towels and of course risk of toxic shock syndrome,cups were too messy and did not enjoy putting it in and taking out in an area i was bleeding so heavily from and was in pain. i would also have diarhhea during heavy days (needed to wash my private area a few times a day)along with cramping so bad painkillers would do anything about i would be on the floor curled over and went a few times to a and e etc.

how dare i suggest that your daughters periods cant be that bad because if she can go hours without changing but you can suggest that no one can be worse than her and must wait 2 hours before getting to change because she can? Even now as an adult and on the medications I could not go 2 hours on the first 3 days of my period,i stay at home due to leaking,clots and pain.

not sure why are you talking about period poverty?

Anaemia comes along with heavy periods indeed, even with 400mg prescribed iron tabs a day+1000mg viramin c to help with absorption my ferritin level is 8 (lower end of “normal”is 25), i dont think i have ever breached 25,21 is highest i have tested.

At the end of the day, kids who just go to school to piss about and waste their time and the time of others shouldn't be there. It achieves nothing for them, and just adversely affects the education of those that want to learn. Why do we have all these stupid rules about toilets just because of the kids who don't want to be in school in the first place? It's ridiculous and counterproductive.

This was like my school. I think the intent behind it is to stop pupils skipping some of the lesson by asking to go to the toilet. However you get lots of well behaved pupils who suffer. I remember in one primary class the teacher was so strict and never let anyone go saying you should have gone in the breaks and that when we got jobs we wouldn’t be allowed to go to toilet when we wanted so needed to get used to it. Of course never had a job in my life where you had to ask permission to go to toilet. And of course in that class there was an incident where star pupil ended up peeing herself. She had relations in school and the teacher started blaming her saying she should have said she really needed to go. Some teachers just like the power trip I think but she was close to retirement so hopefully it’s better now.

You know who can't go to the toilet whenever they like? Teachers, for sure. Probably nurses, doctors, the police, etc...

There are a couple of 'Teachers Only' toilets dotted around, which remain unlocked unless in use (because of course an adult should be able to use the loo whenever they need to!🙄)

What a ridiculous remark. As has been pointed out multiple times, teachers can't go to the toilet whenever they need to. However, the teachers' toilets don't need to be locked because teachers don't vandalise them, vape or take drugs in them, bully people in them or congregate in groups in them when they are supposed to be in lessons.

I have met a lot of teachers in my 12 years of teaching. I've never met a single one (even grumpy ones) who would derive enjoyment from preventing a kid going to the toilet!

Do you really think anyone goes into teaching because they're looking forward to daily monitoring of time in lessons versus time in toilets?

I've taught in 4 schools with very different kinds of students from very different backgrounds.

The management in all four had policies re student toilet use the teachers had to obey, because no school can afford to run the safeguarding or damage risks that would come with a free for all, and nor would you want them to.

If you need a scapegoat, blame Michael Gove, as his ill thought out and rushed policies have meant many students are sitting in lessons that are far too hard/the wrong type for them.

In the 90s when I at school you wouldn't allowed to go to the toilet during class... however if you asked the teacher I don't know a single teacher that said no. They knew the children. It's a sensible rule but can be adjusted by case by case

Gosh you are very aggressive aren’t you?

as I’ve already said numerous times for medical conditions only should you be allowed to go.

yours is a medical condition. What investigation and treatment have you had? You can’t walk or work like that? Never mind attend a school day?

same for my daughter, she under a consultant after 6 months of period which were so heavy she passed out, it is not a competition or comparison with you (!!) - she is now on two types of medication (not the pill) which make her periods lighter and shorter and although not manageable 100% she has now completed stage 1 of hospital ops and meds and now moving to stage 2.

if you are diagnosed with a medical condition - you need treatment and access to the toilet that is inclusive with regards to the disability act.

you are projecting what happens to you onto a 1000 school girls demanding to go to the toilet to get a san pro changed whenever they like that’s different. The majority of school girls don’t have that issue. The majority of school girls (I speak with experience here on the other side) go to the toilet to vape, eat food (!) yes indeed, apply make up, use their phone etc

you can not apply your medical problems to the entire population of menstruating women.

however anyone with period such as you describe should not be in school - that is horrific and they should be under hospital care

Some young people have so much shit to deal with in their lives that they act out at school. Some can cope with the work they're being asked to do, can't get the through the waiting list for CAMHS and there's no money for support in class anyway, so want to leave the lesson whenever they can so they don't feel stupid. Some are impulsive and want to follow the latest tiktok vandalism trend for peer approval.
Some, of course, have no issues at all and are just badly behaved! But I definitely don't think the answer is just not having them at school.

But it isn't always about a medical condition, is it?

I'm a 40 year old teacher and on Friday morning, around 11am, I could feel that I had bled through the morning's tampon. There was actually nothing I could do, but wait for lunchtime as there was no one else around.

Should a teenager have to do the same or should they be able to go to the toilet when they need to?

I am lucky that my dc attend grammar schools that allow the children to use the toilet when they need to, unlike other state schools around here. 😖

"When they need" is a great idea- but many don't need to go every 5 minutes. Also, grammar school likely has smaller classes,imagine 30 students thin king they can go to the toilet whenever they want. As a teacher surely you would not like most of the class missing at any given time.
I absolutely agree that there are necessities and Id never have a girl on a period not go or if you can they they absolutely need to go, but 99% of the time they can wait or dont go when appropriate and then mess around.

At the end of the day, kids who just go to school to piss about and waste their time and the time of others shouldn't be there.

This is a very naïve view. In an average school, a pretty high proportion of students would rather be somewhere else other than in class. Many will indulge in a fair bit of at least low-level pissing about. Where should they all be if not in school? Roaming the streets? Working as child labour? Left at home on their games consoles while their parents are at work? Great way to create an uneducated underclass with no skills for the workplace. Some of the 'pissing about' ones have pretty upsetting and worrying reasons why they might not be engaging well with school.

Behaviour in schools needs dealing with more effectively harshly imo, but 'they shouldn't be there' is a completely unhelpful attitude.