Page 9 | To hate people using the word 'myself' instead of just 'me'?

blackrabbitwhiterabbit · 2023-05-11T10:52:07+00:00

There's just no need. It should be 'my friend and I'...shouldn't it? Not 'myself and my friend.' First world 🌎 problems, I know. 😂

usernother · 14/05/2023 16:32

Doesn't annoy me as much as 'gotten'. I hated even typing that.

CarolinaInTheMorning · 14/05/2023 17:18

usernother · 14/05/2023 16:32

Doesn't annoy me as much as 'gotten'. I hated even typing that.

I hope you will not be annoyed if I use "gotten." We Americans on MN do tend to use American English. 😀

JenniferBarkley · 14/05/2023 18:03

usernother · 14/05/2023 16:32

Doesn't annoy me as much as 'gotten'. I hated even typing that.

No matter how many times it comes up, I will never get used to this. I've gotten used to defending "gotten" though.

(Fell out of use in many parts of England but remains in use in the US, Ireland, Scotland, parts of England and doubtless other parts of the English speaking world.)

Tiresome.

Oldnproud · 14/05/2023 18:23

ASGIRC · 14/05/2023 15:52

You should only use myself when it is something youve done:

I baked the cake myself
I washed myself
I pissed myself laughing.
No other ways! Never as a replacement of me or I!

As for me or I, I was taught a very simple rule - remove the other person!

So is it John and I went to the cinema or John and me went to the cinema?
Imagine John doesnt exist!
So I went to the cinema. And then add John in to the sentence. John and I went to the cinema.

Daisy bought flowers for John and me or for John and I?
No John!
Daisy bought flowers for me! Not for I!
So when I add John in, it becomes Daisy bought flowers for John and me!

So basically, just ignore the other people in the sentence and build it as if it was for you alone, then add them!
And never use myself, unless you are discribing something you have done yourself.

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Well, not just things that you've done, but things that you are doing or will do, too:

I am baking / will bake the cake myself etc.

The trouble with ignoring the other people in the sentence is that this simple 'rule' doesn't work in every tense.
For instance, "John and I went to the cinema" works if you take out John, leaving you with "I went to the cinema", but if you use the present tense, "John and I are going to the cinema", then take out John, you are left with "I are going to the cinema" which clearly doesn't work.

I think the point that I am trying to make is that simple rules can help to confirm something that you are close to understanding already, but are of limited use if you still totally lack that instinctive feel for what is 'correct'.

Dwightlovesmichael · 14/05/2023 18:29

I got an email the other day entirely made up of “myself” and “yourself” used over and over again.

It really wound myself up.

Hercisback · 14/05/2023 18:30

OP you best not work in a school. SLT are full of this shit.

PedantScorner · 14/05/2023 18:42

@Oldnproud , you are not ignoring the other people in the sentence, you are removing them.

The trouble with ignoring the other people in the sentence is that this simple 'rule' doesn't work in every tense.
For instance, "John and I went to the cinema" works if you take outJohn, leaving you with "I went to the cinema", but if you use the present tense, "John and I are going to the cinema", then take outJohn, you are left with "I are going to the cinema" which clearly doesn't work.

If you remove John from 'John and I', you modify the verb.

'John and I are' becomes I am
I am becomes 'John and I are'

Dwightlovesmichael · 14/05/2023 19:24

One of the clangers in the email was, “when you, yourself asked about the incident, I, myself responded xxxxxxxx to which you, yourself replied to myself xxxxxxx”

It went on and on in that way. I thought my head was going to explode.

ASGIRC · 14/05/2023 19:29

Oldnproud · 14/05/2023 18:23

Well, not just things that you've done, but things that you are doing or will do, too:

I am baking / will bake the cake myself etc.

The trouble with ignoring the other people in the sentence is that this simple 'rule' doesn't work in every tense.
For instance, "John and I went to the cinema" works if you take out John, leaving you with "I went to the cinema", but if you use the present tense, "John and I are going to the cinema", then take out John, you are left with "I are going to the cinema" which clearly doesn't work.

I think the point that I am trying to make is that simple rules can help to confirm something that you are close to understanding already, but are of limited use if you still totally lack that instinctive feel for what is 'correct'.

Show quote history

Well, no, because, since Im not daft, I would also change the verb. This is just to figure out if you should be using I or me. And use whatever one you would if it was just you in the sentence. It is not about how the rest of the sentence goes.

What I said (and others have said before me) works exactly as well as weve said it does. You have thrown up a problem that most people that can speak any degree of english should not have.

Oldnproud · 14/05/2023 20:26

@ASGIRC

@PedantScorner

I disagree.

I am not totally daft either, and would think that the problem that I have raised is one that would easily confuse many people who cannot see for themselves why "Me and John went to the cinema" is incorrect.

If they need to be told to 'remove the other person' to see why that sentence does not work, I think that they are going to be even more confused in the present tense when the so-called simple rule of removing the other person does not immediately produce a correct sentence.
Yes, I know that the verb is dictated by the subject(s), but in this type of sentence I don't think that it is anywhere near as obvious or easy to someone already struggling with this issue as you are suggesting.

WestwardHo1 · 14/05/2023 20:29

newtowelsplease · 13/05/2023 16:35

It's not pompous at all in Ireland, it's just the dialect. In England in my experience it's used by people who don't understand grammar and want to make themselves sound intelligent. Unfortunately it has the opposite effect.

There's a world of difference between someone saying "It's yourself Jimmy Rabbitte" by way of a greeting (lifted straight from Roddy Doyle), and someone sending a me an email enquiry starting with "Myself and my wife are holidaying in your area in June...."

JenniferBarkley · 14/05/2023 21:00

WestwardHo1 · 14/05/2023 20:29

There's a world of difference between someone saying "It's yourself Jimmy Rabbitte" by way of a greeting (lifted straight from Roddy Doyle), and someone sending a me an email enquiry starting with "Myself and my wife are holidaying in your area in June...."

Show quote history

Exactly.

popcornfrenzy · 14/05/2023 22:12

People seem to think it makes them sound 'professional' but actually makes them sound a bit thick. I'm with you OP - no idea when this became a thing but it's flipping annoying.

JaneJeffer · 14/05/2023 22:48

There's a world of difference between someone saying "It's yourself Jimmy Rabbitte" by way of a greeting (lifted straight from Roddy Doyle), and someone sending a me an email enquiry starting with "Myself and my wife are holidaying in your area in June...."
When I'm speaking I always use "myself and my husband" because if I say "my husband and I" it sounds like I'm trying to be Kate Middleton or something. If I was writing formally I would use "my husband and I" but I'd still feel like I had notions doing it.

poetryandwine · 14/05/2023 23:08

That’s interesting, @JaneJeffer . To me, the incorrect use of ‘myself’ as in your first example always sounds like someone trying to be formal and not quite knowing how to.

Unless it is a local dialect. That argument was new to me, and I do respect it.

Justcannot · 15/05/2023 00:41

Agree that school SLTs are lousy with it. Our reports go out with the standard email of:

Dear parents/guardians,

Please find attached the autumn/summer/spring term report for xxxxx. Please share the contents with himself/herself, and please do not hesitate to contact myself should you have any questions.

Regards, form tutor.

I argue it every time, but our mostly privately educated, up their own arses SLT, think it's fine. I despair.

ASGIRC · 15/05/2023 01:25

Justcannot · 15/05/2023 00:41

Agree that school SLTs are lousy with it. Our reports go out with the standard email of:

Dear parents/guardians,

Please find attached the autumn/summer/spring term report for xxxxx. Please share the contents with himself/herself, and please do not hesitate to contact myself should you have any questions.

Regards, form tutor.

I argue it every time, but our mostly privately educated, up their own arses SLT, think it's fine. I despair.

As you should because that email makes zero sense!!!

Himself/herself??? That does not even make sense at all.

What is wrong with Him/her and me?!?!?

ASGIRC · 15/05/2023 01:29

Oldnproud · 14/05/2023 20:26

@ASGIRC

@PedantScorner

I disagree.

I am not totally daft either, and would think that the problem that I have raised is one that would easily confuse many people who cannot see for themselves why "Me and John went to the cinema" is incorrect.

If they need to be told to 'remove the other person' to see why that sentence does not work, I think that they are going to be even more confused in the present tense when the so-called simple rule of removing the other person does not immediately produce a correct sentence.
Yes, I know that the verb is dictated by the subject(s), but in this type of sentence I don't think that it is anywhere near as obvious or easy to someone already struggling with this issue as you are suggesting.

How does removing the other person make it diffcult?

I am going to the cinema or John and I are going to the cinema is not a difficult extrapolation.

What we are saying is to remove the other person/people.

So make the sentence as if it is just you.

Then add other people as required.

I am buying some flowers.

John and I are buying some flowers.

Its not rocket science. No one will be confused by this. They might be confused about which one to use if they dont know this rule. But when you know the rule, it is NOT confusing at all!

No one thinks that it should be I are buying some flowers!!!

Nanny0gg · 15/05/2023 13:04

Dwightlovesmichael · 14/05/2023 19:24

One of the clangers in the email was, “when you, yourself asked about the incident, I, myself responded xxxxxxxx to which you, yourself replied to myself xxxxxxx”

It went on and on in that way. I thought my head was going to explode.

I would absolutely have had to say something!

Nanny0gg · 15/05/2023 13:06

Justcannot · 15/05/2023 00:41

Agree that school SLTs are lousy with it. Our reports go out with the standard email of:

Dear parents/guardians,

Please find attached the autumn/summer/spring term report for xxxxx. Please share the contents with himself/herself, and please do not hesitate to contact myself should you have any questions.

Regards, form tutor.

I argue it every time, but our mostly privately educated, up their own arses SLT, think it's fine. I despair.

Are you Head of English? Or if not, surely the HoE can say something?

I'd have to show them why they're wrong!

Nanny0gg · 15/05/2023 13:09

JaneJeffer · 14/05/2023 22:48

There's a world of difference between someone saying "It's yourself Jimmy Rabbitte" by way of a greeting (lifted straight from Roddy Doyle), and someone sending a me an email enquiry starting with "Myself and my wife are holidaying in your area in June...."
When I'm speaking I always use "myself and my husband" because if I say "my husband and I" it sounds like I'm trying to be Kate Middleton or something. If I was writing formally I would use "my husband and I" but I'd still feel like I had notions doing it.

Then I'm very sorry, but there is no need for the 'myself' there. It absolutely sounds like you're trying to be posh. And it's totally incorrect.

Can't you just say 'We'? Or 'John and I'? It doesn't sound KM at all. It's correct English!

TheKeatingFive · 15/05/2023 13:11

Then I'm very sorry, but there is no need for the 'myself' there. It absolutely sounds like you're trying to be posh. And it's totally incorrect.

It sounds absolutely normal to Irish ears. it's perfectly standard here.

Justcannot · 15/05/2023 14:59

Nanny0gg · 15/05/2023 13:06

Are you Head of English? Or if not, surely the HoE can say something?

I'd have to show them why they're wrong!

Show quote history

I am not. Head of English is a known "tell myself" offender.

I was copied into an email today from SLT to a group of staff asking for "questions to be directed to myself in the first instance". DO YOU MEAN "ASK ME FIRST"?

It's pervasive. And shocking!

Nanny0gg · 15/05/2023 16:35

TheKeatingFive · 15/05/2023 13:11

Then I'm very sorry, but there is no need for the 'myself' there. It absolutely sounds like you're trying to be posh. And it's totally incorrect.

It sounds absolutely normal to Irish ears. it's perfectly standard here.

Then if the poster is Irish, my apologies.

WestwardHo1 · 15/05/2023 16:41

JaneJeffer · 14/05/2023 22:48

There's a world of difference between someone saying "It's yourself Jimmy Rabbitte" by way of a greeting (lifted straight from Roddy Doyle), and someone sending a me an email enquiry starting with "Myself and my wife are holidaying in your area in June...."
When I'm speaking I always use "myself and my husband" because if I say "my husband and I" it sounds like I'm trying to be Kate Middleton or something. If I was writing formally I would use "my husband and I" but I'd still feel like I had notions doing it.

Yeah I said that on a previous post. People are too embarrassed because they think people will think they're posh.

If that's the case personally I'd go for "Me and my husband" rather than "myself and my husband". "Myself and my husband" sounds far worse. Or you could try "My husband and I" and watch the sky NOT fall in 😁