To think this is outrageous from the school?

[HarryViles]

DS is just 4. He is at pre-school attached to a private school. He had an awful first few months there - very unsettled and unable to concentate - to the point where he is now on waiting list for ASD diagonsis as the pre-school's recommendation.

However, the last few months he has been doing so well. They have always been a little cold but they are professional and followed the local authority's advice and he has responded very well. They tell me all the time how much progress he is making and friends/familiy comment on the incrase in confidence/verbal etc.

Long story short - I went to a meeting today to see about him going to reception to the school in Sep this year - I know they have places.

(He does have a space at a local state school which seems great - just big class sizes but lovely kids and teachers)

The private school told me they couldn't cater for him as well as the state system, and that 'kids like him are better suited in the state system because they have the resources'. They said 'those schools can do things like sensory rooms, breakout areas, and with additional funding can provide 121 support - we can't and won't do any of that as we simply don't have the resources' (the fees are £20k plus a year). The Senco then said "it's not our fault the government don't give us additional money for kids with challenges".

They also said "our governors want us to be more competitive academically, so they are going to invest in that, not support for kids who are strugglign. sorry to be blunt but that's the way it is"

Obviously I don't want him to go there now. We can't barely afford the fees by the way but he's really doing well there - he has friends, he runs in every day, he comes home and tells me what he's learnt - the change in his is enormous so would sell a leg to continue that if I could.

They keep telling me how bright and funny he is, and then when I say about him staying they say "no no, kids like yours aren't catered for here"

He's barely 4 years old.

Isnt' that discrimantory? I feel angry. I know he won't go there. But can private schools basically do what the F they like?

I'm sure private schools have been in extended discussions with the government begging for more assistance so they can support pupils with SEN - not! They don't want them, plain and simple.

Starmer has already suggested adding vat to school fees and rightly so. I think he’s made his position clear.

It's private school's losses that they want everyone yo look the same, act the same, be from the same background - so they can churn out little robots.

I can't fathom why anyone would want their children to go to schools that are so limited in experience - even if they do come with paddocks and golf courses

It’s always been that way, they want well behaved academic students that look good on their prospectus.

I was addressing the hope that they would be abolished.

Taxing then more is a separate issue that is far from simple, and by no means guaranteed to be achieved, if Labour does in fact have the appetite to attempt it. The government may make law but it is also beholden to it, and therein lies the rub. It’s very easy to make a promise knowing that it appeals to your base, but following through with it (if indeed you actually intent to) is another matter entirely.

Honestly, I have seen state and private and PP is bang on - what you pay for in private is to have kids who are middle class and "easy" plus some glossier facilities and smaller classes.

I know lots of kids who have not been "a good fit" at private and have done very well at state - one I know at the moment who can do quadratic equations at 6, but who can't really write other than on a computer, for example. No one would ever say this child is "not academic", it's just that they don't fit a very standardised form of learning and the state system is doing really well with him. Our local non academically selective private school is able to teach a couple of years ahead to many of the "easy" kids because those kids make very even progress. Lots of kids, whether due to SEN or otherwise, make lumpier progress - need longer in some areas than others, or have areas of brilliance whilst struggling in others. Generally, unless specifically set up for this, private schools do not cope with these kids very well - they have a budget that is build on a particular type of standard child and can manage very well only inside these parameters.

You've clearly got a bit of extra disposable income, so I would embrace state and try to work out how to use that budget wisely to extend him in his areas of strength and support him in his areas of weakness. Your son is special and this rejection doesn't mean he won't have a good outcome from his education.

Has he? Or has he thrown a bone to his base?

It would be worth looking at the % of children with identified SEN at your selected state school.

Nationally, the average is 13% and rising, so around 1 in 8 - around 4 in every class. EHCPs account fir about 1 in 4 of these BUT it us worth commenting that given the time it takes for needs to be identified and paperwork put in place, these overall statistics will understate the level of need.

A school with lower than these numbers may be better placed in terms of having time for each child with additional needs BUT very low numbers may indicate either lack of experience or an active policy of encouraging parents to look elsewhere. On the other hand, classes with 25%+ on the SEN register are not uncommon, and in such classes there nay be masses of expertise but far too little time and resource to truly meet the needs of each.

If the school was able to put you in touch with a parent of a child with ASD / suspected ASD who can talk about how their child was provided for, that would be particularly brilliant. You should certainly seek a conversation asap with the SENCo about transition into Reception, starting from now. Does that school have a nursery class or feeder pre-school which your child could spend sone time in over the coming few months?

Well yes they absolutely can. This is kind of what you sign up for with these schools, and you wouldn’t have been angry about another child being streamed out in this way, it’s only because it’s yours.

As an aside if you can barely afford the fees at preschool age, they’ve done you a favour anyway as no chance you’d be able to keep up with that for another 14 years.

Put your energy into your child and not this.

You may be better looking at village schools as they have smaller reception classes generally. I’m not sure if a private asd assessment would be accepted for the ehcp. Also the ehcp process takes a long time. You may be better finding the right school, meet the senco, look at the building, think about his triggers and what may work for him. You may find he copes well in the right environment. I would try not to panic about the change, it could be a positive. Maybe contact asd support groups locally and see if they can recommend any schools. Also if he is a summer born you have the option of holding him back a school year.

It's always a shock when you get told these things - but they have probably done you a favour.

I cried when DD was turned down for a selective indie place - they were very keen on her for her specialist area, but told me that her degree of dyslexia was well beyond what they could manage.

Up till that point I'd always been told her dyslexia was mild. I called the primary HT in a complete state and they came back and hour later to say that actually it wasn't the case and she was moderately severe to severe.

Gave me the kick I needed to start getting things in place to actually help.

We ended up going with the state option and I am so incredibly grateful that the head turned DD away. With hindsight it would have been completely the wrong school for DD, and their rejection gave us the push to put all sorts of things in place to help.

It does feel miserable at the time though.

Only thing I will warn is that you will need to push and fight for every scrap of support. That is even more the case if they are clever and doing well enough to not flag concerns. DD is still failing to meet her potential but doing well enough that she gets no extra help at all bar what I can buy in for her.

Use the money you'll save on fees to pay for tutoring and other help.

Missjkay private diagnoses which meet the threshold are acceptable for EHCP (most of our diagnoses/assessments were private).

I was also advised by an (excellent) person at CAMHS to join local parenting groups, especially any SEN ones to hear the inside info. from parents who had actually experienced the schools we were considering.

Just think it's laughable tha the state school who are currently raising money to do up the school hall have some money pot waiting to use for kids like my son.

This is where state and private schools are totally opposite.

State schools have a protected pot of money that needs to be spent on the pupils that need it the most, but at the same time there is little money to be spent on the facilities.

On the flip side, a private school is a business and the best way to keep attracting new pupils is to have all singing and dancing facilities, not spend money on the minority of students.

For a student that needs some additional support, I agree that the state school will likely be better. If he needs one-to-one support, that will be made available to him, whereas in a results orientated private school, he would end up (in later years) being pressurised in to doing well which, if he's not academically minded, is not great. You only have to look in the news last week about the girl from Wycombe Abbey that had ASD and committed suicide after being given a detention.

Send him to the local state school, use the money you're saving to provide any additional support he needs and if it transpires he would be able to cope in private school you can always send him when he's a bit older.

I think some posters on here are a bit dismissive of your concerns. If you've a child who you've been worried about but who is now thriving in a particular setting, it much be sickening to be told he's not welcome to stay. ND children often take a longer time than usual to adjust to change, and I empathise with how awful this must be for you. Private schools getting charitable status given their attitude is just mind-boggling.

If he goes to a state school will he definitely be in a class of 30 with just one teacher?
Have you found any less ableist private schools with small class sizes?

Best of luck OP, and hope you and your son are getting to have fun together meanwhile.

I also think its disgraceful that they're writing off your 4 year old! One of DS best friends has a form of autism, affects behaviour and social stuff BUT the kid is an absolute bloody genius - doing early triple science, advanced maths, stats, astonomy etc at 14.

Thank god no-one looked at him at 4 and thought - nah, he's going to be hard work... but that's states schools for you - busy trying to see the potential in everyone rather than sticking everyone into the same boring identikit life

Social climbing, snobbery, buying privilege, and buying better exam results than they would get with an even playing field.

Why does it boil your piss that an institution created entirely in order to exclude, to privilege, to select, and to segregate 'the right sort' from 'the wrong sort' is doing exactly that?

Hi OP, no idea if you’ll get to my message as it’s so far along the thread! Anyway I’m so sorry this happened to you and your DC and I am sending you a big hug.

There is a lot of knee-jerk private school hostility on this thread which I’m not sure is constructive or kind. I too send my my DS (6) and DS (4) to a small private school for reasons of small class sizes and individual attention (zero personal interest in flashy campus, chapel, Ancient Greek, ‘posh friends’ etc)

A very wise freind of mine who is a (state) primary School headmistress said ‘choose a school not a sector’ and I am very convinced of the sense of this. Some schools are much better than others at managing and encouraging SEN children.

There are absolutely private schools who want the easy road and throw out children enthusiastically when they look like being extra work. There are others which see themselves as genuine communities and would be horrified at this approach. I’ve experienced the former (a Montessori preschool which asked my DS to leave aged 3 with no consultation or attempts to work with us on strategies to help. I’m unclear at his age if my lovely gentle and friendly DS has SEN but he certainly has fine motor control issues and struggles with sustained concentration). His current private school is supportive and kind and has introduced a brilliant occupational therapist to our lives.

I am certain your son can thrive in a good state primary particularly if you can afford to supplement with 1:1 help as required. Equally there will be more holistic and supportive private schools around. Wishing you all very well.

My DD has some special needs/adjustments and she was far better served by her secondary state school than her primary prep school (who denied her needs so they didn't have to address them). What your school have said is factually correct. Your boy will be better off in state than private - not because he is/isn't clever enough - but because he WILL get the right support/1:1/provisions/assessments from state that no private can/will provide.

OP I’m really sorry this happened, but they really did you a favour being honest.

DS has SEN and is in a private school that is known for working with ‘mild’ SEN. He gets support and he has therapies in school that I pay for. But the school were clear that they were at the limit of the support they could provide, but I can appreciate they were doing all they could. He no longer needs SALT and is thriving. Unlike the poster who claims that private schools are uncaring 🙄 there are some great ones that nurture.

I’m a governor at a local state school that is brilliant with SEN. I always suggest it to local parents who have children with SEN because they are better at dealing with it- brilliant SENCO and the teachers have plenty of experience with autistic children unlike the local private schools.

It’s about the right school for the right child. I volunteer as a school governor to try to help improve things and demand better for children, and I vote accordingly.

Very few of those knee-jerk posters seem to have a clue what they're talking about.
I've seen blatant discrimination and rejection at state schools, too. It's a fallacy that they are all inclusive and welcoming, coping with every SEN child. A quick look on the SEN children board will disabuse anyone of that rose-tinted fantasy!

Some of those SEN children rejected by state schools end up being funded by the LA at private specialist schools. Too many are left to fester in an education that can't cope with them.

The expectation that every single state school must cope with any and all types of child has contributed to the current intolerable pressure on teachers.

Request an EHCNA now and appeal if refused. The process takes 20 weeks if you don’t have to appeal, but many do have to appeal, some more than once, and the wait for appeals is long. The initial threshold for an EHCNA is relatively low - a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP.

Despite what many say LAs and schools can’t have a blanket policy of refusing to accept independent assessments and diagnoses just because they are independent. And SENDIST do take them into consideration.

If you haven’t already it is worth speaking to the SENCO at the state school DS has a place at. Support is based on needs, so DS won’t need to already have a diagnosis before they provide SEN support.

Independent mainstream schools can be funded via EHCPs but you need an offer of a place for them to be named and some aren’t supportive.

This is awful Op . I feel I am one of those parents to blame though. I am very selfish and I have a kid well man now who went to a highly selective private school. I took my child out of state at 9 yrs because there were SEN kids in his class of 31. He,my son was falling behind and the overstretched teachers with minimal assistance had to focus on the needs of the children who needed extra support,who were disruptive ,who were violent etc. I understand the needs of all concerned but I felt my son was being failed too. I remember and we are going back now over 17 yrs I took my son for his entrance exam and I had a meeting with the Head.He asked me what I expected from school and I told him what I wanted for my son. I paid 24.000 per year back then to have my son out of the way. Its shameful to admit it but thats what I did. To be fair I appreciate I bought him his education and gave him a leg up the ladder,it worked and I am not sorry I did it I am sorry I felt I had to though. I didnt understand back then as I dont understand now (my so is grown with a family of his own) why the help and support that is so badly needed just isnt there.The only way I felt to help my son was for me to buy our way out and its tough,not everyone can do it. I wanted my kid back then to be happy and given a fair crack at school but school couldnt cater to him as so many resources were and had to be aimed at the kids who needed more so my only option I felt was to remove him and buy our way out, I paid my money and they handed my son back at 18 exactly how I wanted him to be, It was a business transaction nothing more nothing less,They did a good job for us,thats why private schools work to appease parents like me thats all. I didnt do it for status or glory I did it as a parent of a non SEN kid I felt I had to. There is no sentiment in how private schools work,they know what we want and we pay to supply it and they do. My kid is as important to me as yours is to you we,both of us were let down but in different ways educationally. I had to buy my way out to look after mine thats all.

They are a selective school. It is a shame for you and your child but they are essentially a business and of course they can make this choice.