To think this is outrageous from the school?

[HarryViles]

DS is just 4. He is at pre-school attached to a private school. He had an awful first few months there - very unsettled and unable to concentate - to the point where he is now on waiting list for ASD diagonsis as the pre-school's recommendation.

However, the last few months he has been doing so well. They have always been a little cold but they are professional and followed the local authority's advice and he has responded very well. They tell me all the time how much progress he is making and friends/familiy comment on the incrase in confidence/verbal etc.

Long story short - I went to a meeting today to see about him going to reception to the school in Sep this year - I know they have places.

(He does have a space at a local state school which seems great - just big class sizes but lovely kids and teachers)

The private school told me they couldn't cater for him as well as the state system, and that 'kids like him are better suited in the state system because they have the resources'. They said 'those schools can do things like sensory rooms, breakout areas, and with additional funding can provide 121 support - we can't and won't do any of that as we simply don't have the resources' (the fees are £20k plus a year). The Senco then said "it's not our fault the government don't give us additional money for kids with challenges".

They also said "our governors want us to be more competitive academically, so they are going to invest in that, not support for kids who are strugglign. sorry to be blunt but that's the way it is"

Obviously I don't want him to go there now. We can't barely afford the fees by the way but he's really doing well there - he has friends, he runs in every day, he comes home and tells me what he's learnt - the change in his is enormous so would sell a leg to continue that if I could.

They keep telling me how bright and funny he is, and then when I say about him staying they say "no no, kids like yours aren't catered for here"

He's barely 4 years old.

Isnt' that discrimantory? I feel angry. I know he won't go there. But can private schools basically do what the F they like?

He hasn’t got any diagnosed disability. Selective private often admit by assessment and interview eg can they sit nicely and listen, can they complete jigsaw, can they ask appropriate questions.

https://www.creativemindstutors.com/assessment-preparation4
This explains type of things some selective schools test for at 4+

He hasn’t got any diagnosed disability.

You don’t need a diagnosis to be considered to have a disability.

One major reason why private schools appear to be "better" is that they don't have children with learning difficulties, neurodivergence, or even low-socioeconomic-background in the classroom. That is sadly what the rest of the parents are paying for. That's part of being "elite". Welcome to the UK...

Bloody private schools, you and your son are better off without them.

DD’s 3, we were clearly told before application for her school that if during her assessment she wasn’t considered to be the right fit (they do have dedicated support for dyslexia but nothing more) for the school they would turn down her application. It’s brutal but straightforward, I would rather have someone tell me straight that it’s a no go so I can move on. I’d be cursing them to high heavens but I would still rather know they think she wouldn’t manage then send her along and find in a few years that she’s miserable because she’s struggling.

Rumpelstiltskin1 · Today 22:56
One major reason why private schools appear to be "better" is that they don't have children with learning difficulties, neurodivergence, or even low-socioeconomic-background in the classroom. That is sadly what the rest of the parents are paying for. That's part of being "elite". Welcome to the UK...

Though what you say about learning difficulties ( other than dyslexia ) may be generally true, some private schools do take able children from low socioeconomic backgrounds. They are able to attend because the schools give them bursaries. Private schools also sometimes take children who are autistic because they may be exceptionally bright.

@HarryViles I went to a private school. It was a decent one and quite costly. Although private schools have resources as they have a lot of money, what they often don’t have, ironically, are brilliant teachers who have extensive experience with a range of children. This can be the case even more so in remote, rural boarding schools, as there’s less competition to get the jobs.

I think the school may be genuinely worried that they do not have staff adequately trained in this regard and obviously don’t want to say that as it’s frankly embarrassing for them. I’m not convinced it is because they don’t think your dc will perform well enough etc, simply because most private schools care only about cash… it’s a bit of a myth that they’re selective about performance. Generally performance is better in a private school as there’s less in a class and the days are usually longer.

I think they’ve expressed it badly and I am sorry that you’ve been through that. I would be equally as defensive and upset in in that scenario. This is the school’s concern as they are not geared up staff wise (and not monitored in the same way as a state school). In your situation I would probably visit a few more private schools and if there’s similar responses, revisit at secondary school when it all matters much more anyway.

Sounds like massive discrimination to me. What exactly are they being paid for if they can't assist every student to the best of their ability? No child is absolutely perfect and every single one needs support in various ways. What other kinds of things would they reject? Sorry little timmy you can't come to this school because you're in a wheelchair. Get f*cked. I'd make a huge stink. Go to the papers.

When you look at the discrimination act it is clear they are not allowed to do this. No school, state or public can refuse allocation of a place because of disability.

Fuck em.

I had something similar with my daughter being kicked out of preschool at 3.
I was told I couldn't take her back and that she wasn't autistic just badly socialised (not true we did every group going and she was diagnosed a year later by the nhs.)
Unfortunately for them they were offering places that included the free 15hrs funded by the council so they had broken the law.
I reported them to the council and they got a full investigation for braking the equalities act.
The man at the council inclusion department was furious.
I know your situation is different but they are trying to tell you, you're not wanted. Other paying parents don't want kids with additional needs at the school and neither do they.
It's disgusting but their loss.

I’m sorry that you have been so disappointed by the school, but if they don’t want your child you are surely better off not being there.

I’m going to make myself v unpopular here, but a private school should have the right to choose who attends. I went to a supportive small private primary myself who accepted a child with significant behavioural difficulties to try and “help”. Thirty years later, I still shake when I think about it and it has significantly impacted me many many years later (as it did friends who also left and I remain in touch with). As a direct consequence of this one child, my class went from 20 to 6. If I finished up in a similar situation with my daughter I would absolutely move her and sending her to private school allows me to make that choice.

I’m sorry for the additional challenges it sounds as though you are facing and I obviously don’t know your son but I will absolutely prioritise my child (as I expect you to).

Your lovely little boy deserves better than that awful place. He's too good for them.

Use the money you'd have wasted on school fees on supplementing his learning as he gets bigger.

No, they don't.

State schools receive around £5k per child.

On top of that, they receive an unprotected amount, which is equivalent to less than £500 per child, which should be earmarked for supporting children with SEND. It often isn't. And when it is, it is often used up providing 1:1 or 2:1 support for children who are unable to cope in mainstream schools, and who could seriously injure themselves or others if not given this level of support.

EHCP or top up funding on top of this is as available in mainstream schools as it is in private schools.

Tell me again how this is less support than the £20k could provide.

@khaa2091 You've acknowledged that your opinion may be unpopular, so perhaps you'll answer a few questions to clarify it?

You say a private school should have the right to choose who attends. Should any other private institutions have a right to choose who they provide services to? Should any public institutions have that right?

On what grounds would selection be acceptable? Intellect? Measured how? Interest in learning? Sporting prowess? Ability to abide by rules and community standards? Hair colour or style? Religion? Ethnicity? How do you draw the line as to what kind of selection is acceptable and what is not? How would this right to choose interact with the legislation around protected characteristics?

It sounds as if you must have had a very traumatic experience as a young child and I'm sorry that has had such an impact on you. I would probably want to argue, though, that it is not a direct consequence of the existence of an equally young child so much as the ineptitude and poor choices of the adults involved.

@Righthandman

On what grounds would selection be acceptable? Intellect? Measured how? Interest in learning? Sporting prowess? Ability to abide by rules and community standards? Hair colour or style? Religion? Ethnicity? How do you draw the line as to what kind of selection is acceptable and what is not? How would this right to choose interact with the legislation around protected characteristics?

Private schools already select on pretty much all of these - directly or indirectly. So do some state schools (selective schools, religious schools, etc.) Local authority schools choose on musical ability, sporting ability, etc. Religious schools are also often, de facto, selecting on ethnicity.

When my parents went to selective (non paying) secondary schools after passing their 11+, there was an open quota of Jewish pupils. By the time I went, the quota was no longer explicit and yet mysteriously there was exactly the same proportion of Jewish girls in each year.

Why are you presenting this as if it's a hypothetical, rather than a reality?

Totally understand your anger. As you say, their loss. I think it's vile that any preschool can reject a child with some additional needs at age 4 from progressing to the primary next door with his peers, but I also know it's standard practice in the U.K. As someone above said, they often do have the resources, but are legally allowed to reject, and so they do.

I’m so sorry that you’ve been treated in this manner, OP. I do think though that you’re better off out of there and it’s great that your son has a place at your local state school. I strongly recommend starting the process to apply for an EHCNA needs assessment. As has been stated by PPs, you can do this yourself.

There are good and bad private schools just as there are good and bad state schools. We left a private pre-school, which was attached to a prep school, because they said that our son’s needs would be better met in the state sector. He got a place at the local outstanding state school, which had a really good reputation for supporting children with SEN. I applied for a statement (precursor to EHCP) and he got 1:1 support and all seemed good. However the school ended up being crap. They refused to accept that DS has ASD. They repeatedly sabotaged his assessment process. They sat back and watched while he was bullied. They allowed the LA to radically decrease his number of allocated OT sessions for no reason. They repeatedly used his 1:1 to support other children instead of him. When they accused me of lying and paranoia, it was time for us to move.

We moved counties and went to a private school with very strong SEN support. To start with the LA refused to pay the costs of his 1:1 support. This is very common in private schools - LAs really don’t like funding specialist support there. Eventually though, after a fight with the LA and proving that DS hadn’t coped in a class of 30 in the state sector, they relented and took on the costs of DS’s 1:1 support at the private school. The school was fantastic (though expensive) and he remained there until he moved to a specialist ASD school several years later, with the LA paying.

I don’t think I’ll ever forgive certain members of staff at the state school for being so unsupportive and completely dismissing DS’s needs. Apparently he didn’t have autism and I was lying and paranoid - yet his disabilities turned out to be complex enough that he spent his whole secondary education at a specialist placement.

Like I said above - there are good and less good schools in both sectors. I hope your state school is a brilliant fit for your son, OP.

Unfortunately they can be as selective as they like. They don't want your son spoiling their excellent results and are trying to put you off. I'd certainly be put off with their attitude. They are clearly a school who are choosing to not put their money into helping children with special educational needs.

Op does not have a diagnosis and the school has not refused a place.

The school have said they won't offer a place because they can't cater for those sort of children as they don't get additional funding, and it is not necessary to have a diagnosis you only need to show how the condition affects you are on a day to day basis. It would appear that it is the school that have said the child has a disability therefore I am sorry but I think it would be somthing I would be looking further into. The citizens advice service document this as does the equalities act and the Government websit

Thank you so much for your support. Some of your messages really made me feel so much better

I did write up the email with what was discussed and it has caused all sort of issues. A very strongly worded letter came back full of legal language about "mischaracterisation" and "not representing the schools views" and "a Reception place is not an automatic right" etc etc. Drop offs are v awkward. And they've just messages me telling there is now no room for my boy on the bus on a summer day trip (that I've paid for) and I can meet them there.

I just backed down a little. My mum said what's the point when I'm not fighting to keep him there. My son has been trying so hard to get stuff right and I'm so angry on his behalf.

Thank you all. Onwards and all that. He's total magic so fuck them.

Absolutely fuck them. The thing about the bus is actually really shit of them and if I remember correctly there is a specific example of "do not exclude kids from school trips" in a legal guidance document on the Equality Act from the EHCR.

It's probably not a very good school if it behaves like this.

And also, the legalese letter sounds like they potentially sense someone with a bit of fight in them and are trying to head off bad press.

I really hate the injustice and bullying of this type of attitude, but sadly you have to pick your battles and this doesn't seem like one you need to fight. Your dc is very fortunate to have you in their corner. Onwards and upwards xxp