To think this is outrageous from the school?

[HarryViles]

DS is just 4. He is at pre-school attached to a private school. He had an awful first few months there - very unsettled and unable to concentate - to the point where he is now on waiting list for ASD diagonsis as the pre-school's recommendation.

However, the last few months he has been doing so well. They have always been a little cold but they are professional and followed the local authority's advice and he has responded very well. They tell me all the time how much progress he is making and friends/familiy comment on the incrase in confidence/verbal etc.

Long story short - I went to a meeting today to see about him going to reception to the school in Sep this year - I know they have places.

(He does have a space at a local state school which seems great - just big class sizes but lovely kids and teachers)

The private school told me they couldn't cater for him as well as the state system, and that 'kids like him are better suited in the state system because they have the resources'. They said 'those schools can do things like sensory rooms, breakout areas, and with additional funding can provide 121 support - we can't and won't do any of that as we simply don't have the resources' (the fees are £20k plus a year). The Senco then said "it's not our fault the government don't give us additional money for kids with challenges".

They also said "our governors want us to be more competitive academically, so they are going to invest in that, not support for kids who are strugglign. sorry to be blunt but that's the way it is"

Obviously I don't want him to go there now. We can't barely afford the fees by the way but he's really doing well there - he has friends, he runs in every day, he comes home and tells me what he's learnt - the change in his is enormous so would sell a leg to continue that if I could.

They keep telling me how bright and funny he is, and then when I say about him staying they say "no no, kids like yours aren't catered for here"

He's barely 4 years old.

Isnt' that discrimantory? I feel angry. I know he won't go there. But can private schools basically do what the F they like?

This is a really interesting post. I have two children at private school. One of who has SEN. We aren't sure if he is going to make it into the senior school, not through intelligence or behaviour or work ethic but simply due to his difficulty (he has dyspraxia). However I don't think you need to be in any way apologetic as ultimately don't we all, as parents, want the best for our children and put it into place any way we can wether that be time or money or whatever.

I also don't think this is simply a private school issue as I have known state schools off load pupils who didn't fit in for whatever reason but I think it's very difficult to hear that they don't want your child and if it does come to that with my son I will be both furious and heartbroken. I wish you all the best.

I’m sorry OP, this must have really hurt.

We had a similar private school experience with my autistic DS, except in our case they kept him in the school for a few years before telling us that he wouldn’t be welcome for the next school year.
It was very upsetting at the time, especially as DS liked the school and was settled there, but ultimately, they didn’t want him and they weren’t prepared to try supporting him. I still think that the private school could have done more to support his needs if they’d wanted to, but it was easier for them to manage him out.

Luckily a few of our local state primary schools had spaces in the right year group, so we were able to look at several schools to find the best one for him. We were very open about DS’s diagnosis and his needs when we were talking to the headteachers - the last thing we wanted was to send him to another school that didn’t want to deal with SEN children. And one or two headteachers of the state schools we looked at also gave off unwelcoming vibes once we mentioned the ASD diagnosis.

The state school we picked in the end worked out well for DS - they do not have the available resources that private schools do; but the headteacher was genuinely committed to making the school as inclusive as possible for children with SEN, which makes a big positive difference.

@turnthetoiletpaperroundproperly your post is really interesting and honestly made me wish I went to private school. I’m 24. In my primary school there were violent kids, one even attacked me! School was definitely all about pandering to those kids and a lot of lesson time was soaked up trying to calm them down. In secondary school, there were people who were disruptive in other ways eg arguing and being disrespectful to teachers in class. The culture was generally that being smart is embarrassing/loser and getting low grades was cool. I felt I had to hide my intelligence almost, some people felt it was ridiculous that I retook my January A grade in maths for a June A* grade for example. The culture of my state school was definitely not about bringing out the best in anyone.

It's a cop out from private schools and used often to select only those who will produce the best results at exam time. I had a similar experience but for different reasons with my dd and was advised/ told to withdraw her from a very selective private school in the North of England. The state school she subsequently attended recognised her ability in stem subjects which wouldn't have happened at the private school who view an A+ grade in sociology better than an A in Physics, it looks better on thier advertising for the next year's intake. So even at such an early stage I would say don't worry too much. Help and support will be available at a state school as it was for my dd who is now doing a master's in chemical engineering at a Russel Group University whist many of her ex private school graduates are wondering what to do with a 2-2 in an "ology"
Good luck.

Not correct. State schools have no protected funding for SEND, except if a child has an EHCP (which they can get in state or private).

The fact that some/many private schools reject children with SEND is contributing to the staggering pressure that mainstream state schools are being put under.

I think @turnthetoiletpaperroundproperly and @itsrainin open up a well-worn but unhelpful line of debate, because they are essentially saying ‘oh those poor kids who grow up to be successful, how terrible for them to have had to share space with less fortunate kids once.’

It’s not ‘pandering’ to meet the needs of children with learning disabilities any more than it’s ‘pandering’ to build a wheelchair-accessible ramp. Would you feel comfortable saying you moved your kid from a school because you found the building works to improve physical access too disruptive?

Also if children are violent in class, that’s not the school ‘pandering’ or even ‘meeting needs’- it’s the school failing very badly to meet needs, for a number of complex reasons that may deserve more or less blame to the staff. So moving a child from that school may be valid on the grounds that it’s a poor school, but not on the grounds that those greedy disabled kids are hoovering up all the resources.

@HarryViles I’m so sorry the school have discriminated against your son so blatantly. I have been there and your post has been on my mind ever since because it absolutely does hurt like hell. I remember also being so angry that schools can get away with it because of course, once they have made you feel so very unwelcome, you are hardly going to fight for your son’s place there.

You are not being unreasonable. It is discriminatory, and yes, many schools do whatever they like towards children with SEN. Some private schools get away with worse because the parents can be less informed, having had fewer battles up to the point where it goes wrong. Also state schools are -rightly- not allowed to have blanket policies excluding SEN, where as private schools get away with statements like ‘pupils are expected to be academic enough to keep up with the curriculum with a maximum of one hour additional support per week.’ But state schools can be terrible too- they cannot legally decline to offer a place to a child with an ehcp except in very specific circumstances but they will offer up many wildly inappropriate and hurtful excuses if they don’t want you in the hopes of pushing you away.

A few thoughts-

It is very likely some of the staff at your private school have ASD themselves. (A profession that requires a degree and significant interest in that subject for the rest of your career?) They may not be aware of it. Some of them may well have been very like your son at 4. How ironic! They are certainly not in a position to judge him and his future prospects.

Your son might grow up to achieve very well in particular subjects, or he might have siblings who do. It is the school’s great loss, in that case, that they won’t have the privilege of teaching your children and that you will not be recommending them to your friends regardless of how able their kids are.

In any case it’s the school’s loss, not yours. I’m sure your son has many lovely qualities regardless of academic ability. He has clearly persevered brilliantly at preschool despite being so little. You should be really proud of him.

They are not correct that the state sector has more funding or resources, but you will often find more knowledge and support. Many private schools badly let down kids with SEN because they don’t know what to offer. You should speak to the head and the Senco at the state school where you have a place, discuss your son’s current needs and see what they can offer. Hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised.

You should probably apply for an EHC needs assessment as soon as you can- it sounds as if the criteria would be met- and consider looking at other schools both mainstream and specialist. Especially if you don’t get good vibes from the head and senco at your meeting.

You should write down everything the private school said in your meeting. Possibly do it up as minutes and email asking them to confirm the record. This will be therapeutic I think for you to get it off your chest but also you can then use it to make a complaint if you want to.

Wishing you and your son all the best for September xx

It is typical of a private school, your child sounds bright and you will ensure whatever school they attend they will do well. ASD is nothing to fear, both my boys and myself have ASD, I was a teacher who retired early, one son is a HGV driver and the other has a degree in animal behaviour, I hope he enjoys his new school

My advice would be never mourn a school who didn't want your child. My DD looked at 22 schools when she was bullied at her boarding school and she needed to leave. Five turned her down. They made spiteful assumptions regarding her SEN and I still think their behaviour was discrimination (my child is mixed race and LGBT). However what is factually correct is my DD is super clever and she is now at university studying for a medical degree. I will have the last laugh as she is top of her class. Nasty bullies exist in teaching faculties too, pick kindness and be there for your son. A special needs child will need you throughout their life. My DD is lovely, genuinely kind, decent and I am super proud of her. Some of the educationalists we met have no business working with children. Be honest with your chosen school and be prepared to advocate every day.

There are some private schools that cater for the kids who are not academic but parents want private. In fact there’s a huge unmet demand for it in London at least. But most private pre and prep schools are setting kids up ready for the hugely competitive entrance exams for senior schools. And they know their stuff - your son wouldn’t be able to do what’s demanded of him in that school. Good that you’ve a great state place, more than many can say.

Paying for private education does not necessarily mean a better one. This school has told you that it’s primarily a business rather than a place that primarily cares about children.

The reasons they are giving you are rubbish. The issue is with that school itself. It's not prepared to support your child. Private schools are better placed to support children with SENCO issues than state schools. Both of my children have SENCO needs and are in private school. Their schools have always provided excellent support. I did have them in state schools before but they were woeful. I had no choice but to go private to ensure that they got the right support.

Exactly this. State schools are drowning in the costs of catering to children with SEND /behaviour issues because of the lack of outside support unless they have an EHCP, which are like gold dust nowadays.

That’s about the worst response I’ve ever seen from a state school, both the head and the chair of governors need sacking. Have you ever come across SENDIAS? If not they are definitely worth looking up. Each local authority has one and they are very helpful

That is horrible. Not all private schools are like that. If it’s only for kids who perform to a certain standard it’s not a very good school is it? It’s not necessarily the school that has caused the improvement in your son, the improvement could have happened anywhere. Please don’t let it take away your pleasure at seeing him do well. If he’s managed to improve in a school environment it’s actually a good sign that things aren’t as bad as you might think.

I saw you say that you would start the process of applying for an EHCP, unfortunately you can’t do that the assessment has to be done by the school and signed off by the LA. Not ideal I know, this is where SENDIAS comes in

Parents can request an EHCNA themselves.

This happened to us. We started our son at another private school which we didnt realise at the time had become very selective. It was made clear in the first week he wasn't "up to it". We called up my old prep school and got him in there, thanks to covid he was behind in his speech, emotional and physical development (handwriting none existent). We had meetings with the development director of the school who told me that "he may not be best suited to the prep school system" and that may not be able to support him and suggested he have a developmental review. We did this on the NHS and the results were that other than being a bit shy coming into the room, he was fine. As a result of this they offered us the option of repeating reception, I think they felt they had to as his teacher had suggested it as an option. Long story short he's repeated the year and thrived and is about to go up into the next year.

I wouldn't worry too much as they're obviously intending to put as little as possible into each child for as much money as people are prepared to give them. Apart from a very select few my view is that private school teaching is haphazard containing people that the state wouldn't employ and good teachers that are sick of the state paperwork ....and their 'good results' are often acquired purely by their selection process.

I work at a non selective private school, and lots of the students have ADHD etc diagnoses. You may find another place like that?

They are doing you a MASSIVE favour telling you this now. My son went to small local private school that as the years progressed his gap to keep up with those being hothoused for the local grammars became even more evident. I wish I had followed my gut instinct and moved him out to a state school that could’ve catered for his SEN much better. In short he was basically ignored in lessons “looked at the ceiling” when he’d finished his own work and others had been given extension exercises etc etc. private primaries do not have the resources or knowledge of how to deal with anything other than an academic child, they’re stuck in the 70s and feed of the success off those children, not realising that the very nature of that type of child with their pushy parents would excel anyway without the private education. we then had an absolute nightmare trying to get him in a local state secondary because we’d not taken the state primary route and had the additional worries of him having to make new friends at the same time as moving from a tiny private school to a large secondary. Move your child now and watch him flourish all the more. Good luck.

I don't know if the anti discrimination laws are the same in England but in NI this could very well be unlawful - here it is unlawful to discriminate against an SEN child because of his disability. You do need of course to be able to prove first that your child does have a disability for this to work. If you want to make a fight of it I would call the EASS and ask for their advice.
Leaving the law aside, though, this can be long drawn out, there is no money attached to it and you will make an enemy of the school to which you're entrusting your child.
And by the way, I'm pretty sure the anti discrimination laws in GB apply equally to public and private sectors, they certainly do here.

State schools have far more support than private schools. Smaller Private schools are really struggling at the moment and they probably can’t afford SEN help.

I have had a look at the law on this and it is illegal for the school to refuse admission on grounds of disability. A quick Google search will confirm this. Ask for them to confirm the conversation in writing, as that would strengthen the evidence. I am really surprised at how many comments seem to either support the school or at least think they can legally do this.

Funding per child in the state sector is around 1/3 of a child in a private school - it a state school gets as much money per year for each child as a private school gets in a term.

Out if this, they have to provide for the vast majority of the UK’s children with SEN.

Are you sure state schools genuinely have more support? More experience and thus expertise, yes. More support? In classes twice the size? No.