To think this is outrageous from the school?

[HarryViles]

DS is just 4. He is at pre-school attached to a private school. He had an awful first few months there - very unsettled and unable to concentate - to the point where he is now on waiting list for ASD diagonsis as the pre-school's recommendation.

However, the last few months he has been doing so well. They have always been a little cold but they are professional and followed the local authority's advice and he has responded very well. They tell me all the time how much progress he is making and friends/familiy comment on the incrase in confidence/verbal etc.

Long story short - I went to a meeting today to see about him going to reception to the school in Sep this year - I know they have places.

(He does have a space at a local state school which seems great - just big class sizes but lovely kids and teachers)

The private school told me they couldn't cater for him as well as the state system, and that 'kids like him are better suited in the state system because they have the resources'. They said 'those schools can do things like sensory rooms, breakout areas, and with additional funding can provide 121 support - we can't and won't do any of that as we simply don't have the resources' (the fees are £20k plus a year). The Senco then said "it's not our fault the government don't give us additional money for kids with challenges".

They also said "our governors want us to be more competitive academically, so they are going to invest in that, not support for kids who are strugglign. sorry to be blunt but that's the way it is"

Obviously I don't want him to go there now. We can't barely afford the fees by the way but he's really doing well there - he has friends, he runs in every day, he comes home and tells me what he's learnt - the change in his is enormous so would sell a leg to continue that if I could.

They keep telling me how bright and funny he is, and then when I say about him staying they say "no no, kids like yours aren't catered for here"

He's barely 4 years old.

Isnt' that discrimantory? I feel angry. I know he won't go there. But can private schools basically do what the F they like?

also it comes across that the pre-school could have found it challenging to accommodate your son. Again, that’s not disrespecting your child or saying he’s done anything wrong - he hasn’t. But the school weren’t set up well, so that’s a failing on their part and it’s not a given that they are capable of continuing to support him as well in the private school. It’s just not a good match perhaps?

it’s normal for kids to go their separate ways after pre-school and again at primary school. Is there any support you can access to make the transition easier for him?

I'm a bit shocked at some of these replies. Equalities leglislation applies to all schools including private and legally they are not allowed to discriminate, they must make reasonable adjustments for disabled pupils.

I would also disagree with some comments made about results. SEN does not equate to less intelligent. Indeed some of the most successful people in the world have SEN. If there is an impact on results its perhaps due to poor quality of teaching in a particular school as many private schools manage perfectly well.

That's how it has always been. They don't want SEN kids they want kids who will achieve the top marks and make them look good. That school doesn't deserve your child op.

Many schools have entry requirements including state schools.
With grammars you have to pass the 11+. Other state schools also have individual entrance exams. With others it may be a certain religious requirement.
If the school has certain entry criteria that’s what they are going by.

I’m so sorry, OP. I’d be feeling really upset and angry too but, once that eased a little, I’d be relieved too that they were so transparent about how they try to maintain a reputation to attract more parents with cash to splash. I’m a teacher and I wouldn’t want my own child in their care, no matter what their ability etc. They sound like one-trick ponies at best; don’t want the hassle of doing what so many skilled, inclusive teachers do when differentiating learning for a range of abilities; and like they’d be totally useless should a child’s learning needs come to light later on in their life and not even notice the signs to help diagnose, let alone teach according to a child’s needs.

I’m so glad your son has a great school lined up!

They are being quite honest with you. They cannot offer the support your child might need, and they recognise he could struggle in that environment. Rather than place him there, it's better to know now and find a school that does suit him.

In my kids' private school, some learning support was provided in the foundation years for some children. However, this dropped off in high school. Some of these kids went elsewhere, dropped out or lingered at the the bottom of grades. At schools like this, academic success is the key driver, not the welfare of the children. They are businesses. Your child is absolutely better off elsewhere.

This is true when a child is actually disabled or has a diagnosis - OP’s son has neither which makes it much easier to take the approach they did.

They’ve been open that they can’t provide additional dedicated support that your son may need. At least they’ve told you now, instead of you spending £20k a year and him floundering.

It’s a hard message to hear though.

I just saw a PP mentioning legal requirement to make “reasonable adjustments” for disability.

So there will be wide doors, access to all floors, disabled toilets….but it’s not going to extend to providing additional tuition in a private.

Our DC are at a prep school. It’s a charitable trust where the profits are reinvested into facilities and teaching etc.

Fees have increased 14.8% since last September!! None of the parents are going to be happy if their fees are going to pay for 1:1 support for someone else’s child. There are a few children where the parents pay directly for the TA support needed, but it’s not reasonable to expect the school (aka the other parents) to pay for this.

I've only skimmed the thread because it's a bit of a sensitive subject for me, but I'm sorry for you OP. I know it's shitty, and I wish I could say it's the only time you'll come across this attitude.

PP here have been well-meaning and said that your DS will "probably be better off" in a state school where his "needs can be met". The truth is that state school provisions barely - if ever - properly meet the needs of autistic children. It's all about coping with the best that's available, while having to manage in a class of 30.

What would be best is a small class of 8 or 9 children where tuition can be individually tailored. Guess who could provide that if they chose to? A private school.

State schools are woefully short on funding and it's an absolute fucking BATTLE to get what your child needs. I was the SEN school governor for many years, and I'm also the parent to two autistic DC - one in special school, one in mainstream with support. The state system is desperately, desperately underfunded for SEN children. And like private schools, there are plenty of state schools who really can't be arsed with autistic kids. Off-rolling continues to be an issue.

Some state schools are marvellous. Hopefully you've found one that will do everything in its power to manage to support your child well despite the dire lack of funding. It's not easy though, even at a wonderful state school because of the sheer size and the lack of resources.

The vast majority of private schools won't touch autistic or SEN children unless they're some kind of prodigy. They want top notch results and don't want anything to mar their reputation of being a school that produces high achievers etc. It's a snotty, shitty attitude. And it's not about the funding - most private schools wouldn't be willing to accommodate the child, even if the parent paid for any extra support etc. It's about their reputation - they just don't want SEN kids on their registers.

Have you considered independent, alternative schools in your area - like a Montessori school or similar? You might even find there's a small independent school that caters well for SEN children - they typically don't charge as much as "regular" private schools and the ethos is a bit more relaxed, more about inclusion. We have one, and there's only 20 children in the whole school - many of whom have SEN. Not every area has this type of school - and they might not suit your child. But it's worth having a dig around to see what's available? Have you got a connection with other SEN parents in your area? They're usually an invaluable source of advice about school placements.

Big hugs OP. I know it's hurtful - but I bet your DS absolutely rocks. As an autistic adult myself, I can tell you the most important thing is having a loving, supportive family who love and accept you for who you are - your DS is lucky to have you ❤️

Private schools are elitist, that is the point of them and why you're paying for "the best", so why would it be surprising that they're being selective 😐

II think the school are right and why would you want your dc to attend a school that honestly can't cater as well as a state school can?! My dc is at a private school but it is true that often unless it's a specialist school, state school provision is often superior for dc with sen. There are a number of parents at our school with one dc in private and their dc with sen at state for this reason. Our private school does say if you want to pay the salary of a 1-2-1 TA they allow this to help dc with sen. I don't know anyone that's chosen that route though. Why would you when state provision will still be better most of the time.

Our school would never refuse a dc with sen but the dc would definitely be worse off than at a state school. Our fees are £21k prep and is a non selective school.

Honestly? If the school doesn't want you then you are better off in the state system. I saw the students at my DC's private school that had additional needs. Mild additional needs they can cater for - and make you pay through the nose for. (Lots of paid for additional classes required). As soon as a student needed help with more than 2 subjects they were managed out of the school.

And the school absolutely lied in their school reports that they sent on to the next school (good friends with a parent this happened to).

Some private schools might choose to cater for additional needs, but I suspect if you are on the road to getting a diagnosis at age 4 then most of them will consider the needs too great.

Yes it is discrimination and no they are not right.

There are well established routes to getting either full funding or partial funding. Often you pay the fees and the LA pay for any SEN provision up to a certain amount.

The school are meeting his needs now so they can clearly provide a suitable education. You say you do not want him to attend there now and I understand that.

But it might be worth talking to a solicitor. Ask for their reasons in writing first. Then decide what you want, it might be worth a solicitor's letter for compensation for you and your son's discrimination and hurt feelings. Obviously they will not want any publicity they may well pay to gag you.

https://www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/special-educational-needs/your-rights/funding-independent-place

https://www.cabshropshire.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/ED-SEN-in-independent-Schools.pdf

Honestly I think you’ve dodged a bullet. You can’t really afford the school (per your own admission) and the school have told you they can’t cater to your child’s needs.

Two big red flags this is not the right school for your child. Lots of children move from private nursery’s to new schools for reception your son won’t know anything more than you tell him.

If you really want to send him to private school try again in a few years, just because it’s a no now doesn’t mean it’s a no forever.

They won’t want to do the extra work. As a parent of a child with sen I would say choose the school that wants him. Otherwise you will always have to fight for it. I know of a private school that has a unit for sen children but parents have to pay extra on top of the normal fees.

Thanks for all the help and info.

I know its not the right place for him but it is right in the sense he's doing brilliantly there and loves it. But they said the support he gets now (not 121, but of course more staff, flexibility e.g. if he can't focus he can do something else for a bit or go sit in his tent etc) can't continue. And that even if "he manages reception just, he may well not be coping by year one".

My boy is funny, confident, always talking, he just has some challenges around social interactions and he needs to be given reassurance

And just thought what an admission...that with all the bullshit in the brochure about the "nurturing community" and "diversity and understanding" that actually if you need a little extra support...you can fuck off

And kids with SEN are often amazing academically or brilliant at art, music, technology etc

I know I'm taking it personally and I must not. If he gets am EHCP at the state then fine, but otherwise where is the state school finding all this extra resource?

She told me they don't have resources for a sensory room. They are constantly building new fancy stuff. They could do it, they don't want to.

Just think it's laughable tha the state school who are currently raising money to do up the school hall have some money pot waiting to use for kids like my son.

I couldn't care less about private vs state. I just want him to be happy and find the right school for him. And he was very happy there. But we will make it work somewhere else.

There is a lot of misinformation and odd attitudes on this thread.

yes, it hurts like hell when your dc is rejected. It happened to one of mine. As it happens, the school were right, and she would not have coped further up the school (not that they knew that from the pre school assessment day). She ended up in a specialist provision which could not cater to her needs, and which lied about this I order to receive the funding for her, and then stated that it was her fault she was not progressing, not theirs. I moved her to a placement that could support her, and she has thrived. She still got rejected by a SM college, though, again due to attitudes and spurious reasons. I could have fought that position, but did not want her anywhere near a place that could not value her for who she is.

my younger 2 have both been through mainstream private prep schools. Dd2 went from age 3, where we told them she was likely on the spectrum. It wasn’t perfect, over the heads, but did give her what she needed - smaller classes, individual attention, and the opportunity to discover a huge talent for music. She is now at secondary (private) on a music scholarship, and is thriving. No extra support beyond what either school was prepared and able to give. No extra tutoring payments. No issues beyond having to treat her as an individual.

ds is just finishing at the same prep. He got his diagnosis before he started there. They were still happy to have him. Again, he has massively benefited from being treated as an individual by teachers with the time to really get to know him, and smaller classes. He too has a huge musical talent, and is heading off to secondary (private) with a scholarship. He has the academic ability to get into selective private’s, and some of his teachers were surprised I did not enter him for those. He is instead going to a small nurturing secondary, as that is what he needs. Private schools can and do accept children with SN.

Neither of my younger 2 would have got an EHCP without a massive legal fight. And so they would not have attracted extra funding at state school, nor extra support from TAs or specialist staff. My eldest, who (after that huge legal fight) ended up in a specialist provision providing full time 1:1 was originally assessed as needing ‘up to 7 hours a week support from a general TA’. The SN system as a whole in this country is failing and creaking at the seams. You do not just get the support you need. You have to fight, and fight hard for it, whatever school (mainstream, private, or specialist) you are in.

the OP’s school was shitty to suggest that her ds’s needs will be better met in state school due to resources - the resources do not exist without a huge process and likely fight, and then, at that point, potentially the resources can be used in a private school too. That school do not have the right attitude towards her ds, and so the school is not the right place for him, but let’s not pretend that all is rosy and simple i the stare system, and that her so. Will be welcomed with open arms and get all his needs met instantly. Because that will not happen.

Look at other private prep schools most are finding it difficult to fill their classes. Some have sensory rooms. ASD kids often find it near impossible to deal with a class of 30. You are likely to get very little support in the state school until it becomes obvious he needs help, even if he has a diagnosis, and that may mean years without any extra support. You do need to grow a thick skin it’s a long and bumpy ride. My DS is very good a music that would not have been discovered if he hadn’t gone to private school, it provides him with a lot of joy and a group of friends now he is a teenager.

To start off with, the whole premise of a private school is that they’re discriminatory in that they discriminate against people who cannot afford the fees. If it’s a single sex school it will also discriminate against the opposite sex.

Most are also academically selective.

Basically, you’ve paid £20k for a year in a nursery which you would have got for free had you sent him to a state school nursery. The school have spent a year with him, and are not able to meet his needs moving forward. Luckily, the state sector is very good in generally supporting all children. I’m sure your ds will be fine.

Oh god @ElfDragon I can't imagine him coping in a class of 30 at all. I'm going to start applying for an EHCP now before he starts. Is that a good idea?

When DS joined pre school he used to push all the activities off the tables rather than take part and hide in the room. Now he takes part in all the activities because of the extra support and he loves i

The private school tell me he won't cope with reception but what is this state school going to be able to magically provide from day one? He's just gonna go backwards.

I was told by a friend in education not to even mention to the state school when looking round that my son already is on list for diagnosis and has a LA plan.

I'm gonna have to toughen up. Someone told me you have to fight every day for a kid with SEN to get what he needs. I can feel that is true

Sorry you're finding this hard OP - I would too as it feels very personal.

But where you said, She told me they don't have resources for a sensory room. They are constantly building new fancy stuff. They could do it, they don't want to - they have to spend money on things that benefit the whole school community. They can't spend a big sum of money on something that only benefits a couple of children - other parents just wouldn't be ok with it I'm afraid.

For some of these responses...tell me you've never been to a mainstream school, without saying you've never been to a mainstream school!

The OP is completely right. There is no money pot! The funding for children with additional needs isn't ring fenced- it's not waiting in a little pot for x child! The Local Authority has a duty of care to provide the support set out on the EHC plan, but that support is often unqualified and unspecific. Mainstream schools do their best, but are variable in quality.

Additionally, a 1:1 might be needed (would be very unusual unless v high needs) but that could be negated with a small class and a skilled teacher (and quite frankly, with those numbers the teacher should be able to teach well).

The middle class darling parents mustn't be upset though. 🙄. This is why the charitable status of private schools is called into question.

@Labtastic they just built a dark room for photography. That only benefits kids doing photography. Lots of resources are specific

X-posts, OP.

good luck in finding a school that wants your ds for who he is. I really hope you do, because he deserves it.

this is just the start of it all. I could not have predicted, when dd1 was rejected all those years ago, where she would end up now. It has been quite the journey, but she is a delightful amazing young woman, and will be a real asset to any place (college now, in the future jobs) that can take the time to see who she is.

you will need to develop skin like a rhino to support your ds along the way. IPSEA and SOS-SEN are good places to find the resources you need to ensure your da gets his needs met.