Page 33 | To ask if you have a problem with the burkini?

Mvslimah · 2023-05-07T19:28:59+00:00

Honest answers please would you give a woman (maybe Muslim maybe Jewish) a wide berth if you saw them wearing a burkini or modest (Ie fully covered) swimsuit at a pool? if you see a woman wearing one do you give it a second thought or is it just a meh, who cares? tia

NatashaDancing · 10/05/2023 18:27

SnackSizeRaisin · 10/05/2023 15:26

The UK is a Christian country, our head of state is also the head of the church. We are tolerant of other religions and don't enforce religious laws so it's a technical point. The C of E is pretty laid back as religions go. But we are different to France in that sense.

Show quote history

The UK does not have an official religion. Christianity may well have the greatest number of faith holders. The king or queen is head of the C of E but has no role in the Church of Scotland. It is perfectly possible to get through life with no connection to any religious body and nothing in UK, English, Scots or NI law requires a UK citizen to engage with any of them.

MargotBamborough · 10/05/2023 18:58

NatashaDancing · 10/05/2023 18:27

The UK does not have an official religion. Christianity may well have the greatest number of faith holders. The king or queen is head of the C of E but has no role in the Church of Scotland. It is perfectly possible to get through life with no connection to any religious body and nothing in UK, English, Scots or NI law requires a UK citizen to engage with any of them.

Show quote history

Having an official religion is not the same as compulsory religion.

Curtain1980 · 11/05/2023 16:40

Threads like this seriously make wonder about the reason for religion, the institution of religion, the control it has over our lives, why people seek out that control? Why they blindly believe?

ArcticSkewer · 11/05/2023 17:09

Curtain1980 · 11/05/2023 16:40

Threads like this seriously make wonder about the reason for religion, the institution of religion, the control it has over our lives, why people seek out that control? Why they blindly believe?

Sometimes it's an undiagnosed brain tumour. There are specific areas of the brain linked to spiritual and religious feelings

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/god-brain-tumor-surgery-points-brains-religious-center/story?id=9796634

Finding God In The Brain

Researchers report in a new study today that they have found regions of the brain that seem to impact a person's level of spirituality.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/god-brain-tumor-surgery-points-brains-religious-center/story?id=9796634

dig135 · 11/05/2023 21:22

Curtain1980 · 11/05/2023 16:40

Threads like this seriously make wonder about the reason for religion, the institution of religion, the control it has over our lives, why people seek out that control? Why they blindly believe?

From my dabble as a youngster with Christian parents, I'd say the hope of life after death. Other than that, lots of us choose to live by the basic ethics that religion dictates.

If I had to pick any religion, I'd probably be a Christian or Sikh. Or a Buddhist but not sure that's quite the same. The others don't really appeal, particularly those which I'd view as restricting my personal freedoms as a woman.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 12/05/2023 17:06

Mvslimah · 09/05/2023 20:36

But you don’t know me, so you don’t really know what I do pushback on, but the thing is I quite like Islam the way it is, I don’t necessarily like Muslims and what Muslims do, there is a distinction to be made there.

i have no once said that women are responsible for the actions of men, that is your inference. I’ve replied as to why Muslim women do such and such and have given a broad factual answer. Now according to some I probably don’t dress modestly enough, but I’d challenge if anyone pulled me up on that.

why does the religion need to be adapted when it has been this way for 1400 years? Tbe religion itself isn’t the problem, it is how it has been interpreted and slowly twisted to suit the needs to specific governments to legitimise their regime cough saudi cough FYI changing the religion or what’s termed a bid’ah is a huge sin. Things of course need to be viewed In their historical context, and some scholarly issues need to be reclassified as to where they sit in terms of the sharia, but that’s not Islam as such, that’s an interpretation of it (usually a man’s interpretation which is why some very patriarchal things have seeped in). You may or may not who knows be interested to know that under the Ottoman Empire, homosexuality across the Muslim world that was ruled by the ottomans was decriminalised, non Muslims could visit Mecca and medina and there was a real drive toward pluralism. The amount of hudud or hadd punishments enacted by Muslims judges across the entire Muslim world, prior to the formation of Saudi, was so small you could count it on one hand, the Muslim caliphates were the original welfare states that guaranteed non Muslims, especially Christians and Jews, equal rights, freedom of religion and protection the likes that other societies of the time hadn’t seen. One of the first universities in the world was founded by a Muslim woman… these are all things that are part of the faith that have got eroded with the foundation of Saudi Arabia and their aggressive promulgation of their version of Islam.

Show quote history

Thanks for the historical insight, though not an expert I do have an appreciation of the civilised societies which existed long before they were 'discovered and civilised'. I am always open learning more. All women should be examining the effects of the patriarchy , especially within organised structures like religion.

I still disagree with modest being an appropriate word in today society. Whilst there are some genuine misunderstandings, in the main threads like this just highlight how ingrained prejudice really is. I don't subscribe to Islam being the worst religion or worse that Christianity. Nor do I believe that Muslim women are the most oppressed. I feel that most women are oppressed, they either cant or wont admit it.

On a side note, I would avoid making comparisons between items of clothing like the burkini and afro hair. One of those is as nature intended.

Original poster

Mvslimah · 12/05/2023 17:47

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 12/05/2023 17:06

Thanks for the historical insight, though not an expert I do have an appreciation of the civilised societies which existed long before they were 'discovered and civilised'. I am always open learning more. All women should be examining the effects of the patriarchy , especially within organised structures like religion.

I still disagree with modest being an appropriate word in today society. Whilst there are some genuine misunderstandings, in the main threads like this just highlight how ingrained prejudice really is. I don't subscribe to Islam being the worst religion or worse that Christianity. Nor do I believe that Muslim women are the most oppressed. I feel that most women are oppressed, they either cant or wont admit it.

On a side note, I would avoid making comparisons between items of clothing like the burkini and afro hair. One of those is as nature intended.

Show quote history

I didnt make that initial comparison someone else did and I think that woman was a woman of colour.

OP posts:

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 12/05/2023 19:28

Please accept my apologies for attributing that to you. I don't know if the original person is a POC. IME would be an odd thing for a black person to say.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 12/05/2023 19:28

@Mvslimah

Original poster

Mvslimah · 12/05/2023 19:35

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 12/05/2023 19:28

Please accept my apologies for attributing that to you. I don't know if the original person is a POC. IME would be an odd thing for a black person to say.

No worries, I don’t know, they may have been referring to hair/ clothes as general signifiers of ‘otherness’ that (sadly) still make people feel uncomfortable

OP posts:

Curtain1980 · 13/05/2023 08:53

dig135 · 11/05/2023 21:22

From my dabble as a youngster with Christian parents, I'd say the hope of life after death. Other than that, lots of us choose to live by the basic ethics that religion dictates.

If I had to pick any religion, I'd probably be a Christian or Sikh. Or a Buddhist but not sure that's quite the same. The others don't really appeal, particularly those which I'd view as restricting my personal freedoms as a woman.

Show quote history

It’s the rituals that frustrate me not the way of living. I would hope most of us live by the basic values. The rules of the way you should look, wear, how your hair should be etc. I believe much of it is to distract us from materialism and ego, but I’ve found that the most ‘religious’ I know are materialistic and egotistical .

Gwenhwyfar · 13/05/2023 10:56

NatashaDancing · 10/05/2023 18:27

The UK does not have an official religion. Christianity may well have the greatest number of faith holders. The king or queen is head of the C of E but has no role in the Church of Scotland. It is perfectly possible to get through life with no connection to any religious body and nothing in UK, English, Scots or NI law requires a UK citizen to engage with any of them.

Show quote history

Yes, the King is the head of the Church in England, not the UK. However, there are Anglican bishops in the House of Lords making decisions for the whole of the UK except in devolved matters.

StarlightLady · 13/05/2023 11:41

I don't have a problem with people wearing what they want, but not what other tell them they should do.

Likewise, I expect people not to have a problem with me opting to go topless.

glowfrog · 13/05/2023 12:02

I'll be honest, it makes me uncomfortable seeing women covered up like that because of what it represents to me (misogyny) but I would never ever give someone wearing a burkini a wide berth, or treat them differently. I would hope it's a choice on their part that they are free to make and leave them be.

Busybutbored · 13/05/2023 12:35

Excuse me if this is a silly question OP, but are you allowed to show ankles and bare feet? I happened to be watching the news today, the presenter was wearing what would be described as modest, very covered up, except her ankles and feet were exposed with scrappy heels. She looked very sexy, and as I've been following this thread it made me wonder. You don't really need to be showing alot of flesh to be sexy, so I just wanted to know

tennesseewhiskey1 · 13/05/2023 13:09

To answer your question - no - I probably wouldn’t even notice it nor would I question it, wear what you like - I come from an Asian country - tho the Muslims in my country don’t use this. I have an aunt who is Muslim, but she’s not super holy or anything.

Original poster

Mvslimah · 13/05/2023 21:00

Busybutbored · 13/05/2023 12:35

Excuse me if this is a silly question OP, but are you allowed to show ankles and bare feet? I happened to be watching the news today, the presenter was wearing what would be described as modest, very covered up, except her ankles and feet were exposed with scrappy heels. She looked very sexy, and as I've been following this thread it made me wonder. You don't really need to be showing alot of flesh to be sexy, so I just wanted to know

Re feet there are different schools of thought around this, one says not part of a woman’s awrah (private parts or body parts to be concealed) and then the three others say they are. I personally think not, but I do normally wear swim socks, verrucas and such.
Ideally ankles ‘should’ be covered but sometimes they just show right, same with wrists. Technically you shouldn’t wear anything to connote sexiness, so super high ‘sexy’ heels would probably not be considered ‘modest’

OP posts: